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foreign

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[Music]

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here I'm recording this intro right now

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in the airport on my way home from the

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Midwest conference on the unknown in

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Cape Girardeau Missouri this inaugural

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multifaceted conference brought together

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researchers in all fields of study into

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the anomalous I had the immense pleasure

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of meeting some of you at this event so

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to each and every one of you who came up

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to my table or came to my lecture and

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introduced yourselves and had a

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conversation with me thank you it truly

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meant the world to me to meet you and

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she had everything UFOs I can't express

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how honored and touched I was that some

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of you traveled so far just to see me

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and the other speakers thank you thank

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you thank you and all the new people I

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met as well welcomed is somewhere in the

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skies I hope you enjoy everything that

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we do here at the show this episode

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includes some incredible conversations I

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had with some of the speakers at the

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event you'll hear interviews I conducted

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live on site with paranormal power

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couple Tobias and Emily Weyland of the

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singular 14 society as we run through

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some of the previous and latest

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investigations and what comes next for

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their upcoming research and book

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projects you'll also hear a fun

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discussion I had with noted Cryptid

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researcher Ken Gerhart on the evidence

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and possibility for the existence of

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both the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot

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we then dive deep into a highly

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controversial discussion with researcher

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Joshua kutchen as he presents a

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fascinating argument for UFOs possibly

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being a symbol of death and the

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connections between UFO phenomena and

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the Soul we then wrap things up with a

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highly enjoyable chat with the liminal

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librarian herself Courtney block as she

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traces the origins of cyclical and

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paranormal investigations in the

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importance of libraries and literature

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when studying the unknown this was such

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a rewarding experience from the moment I

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arrived in Cape Girardeau to this moment

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right now of waiting to go home my

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immense thanks to conference organizers

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Michael Huntington and Ken Murphy for

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inviting me and for making this one of

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the most welcoming conferences I've ever

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had the pleasure of being here to the

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entire staff crew and volunteers for

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Cape events this truly was a conference

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that will become the standard for events

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like this so thank you to all of you

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in rumor is there's already a plan for

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next year so I can't wait to see what

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this event will become in the future and

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I hope you'll all check it out in

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Missouri

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and I also hope you enjoy this special

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episode live from the Midwest conference

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on the unknown and as always keep your

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feet on the ground but never stop

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[Music]

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hey guys this is Ryan Sprague reporting

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live from the Midwest conference on the

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unknown we are in Cape Girardeau

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Missouri uh and we are on the second day

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of the event I spoke last night it was

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fantastic and two of the individuals who

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were at my talk are two of my favorite

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people working in the 14 Realm of the

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unknown and that is Tobias and Emily

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Whalen guys welcome back to Somewhere In

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Disguise so happy to be here Ryan always

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looks like we got something going on so

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we will hopefully it'll fly it down a

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little bit in here as you guys can hear

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um it's been pretty good today it has

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yeah yeah I know um this is the first

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annual Midwest conference on the unknown

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Emily has a hellfire club shirt on for

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you stranger things fans what do you

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what do you supporting here oh uh this

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would be my don't talk to strangers

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shirt featuring uh some kids uh being

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potentially accosted by a saucer

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occupant yep yep very Scholastic book

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which I love I love that's what I always

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appreciate you guys always look so

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stylish they're paranormal and 14 and

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stuff um but let me ask you how has it

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been so far at this conference it's the

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first one I don't know about you guys

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but I was super excited to get the call

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to be here

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um I don't get to the Midwest often I'm

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a city boy on the East Coast but um yeah

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how's everything going so far here what

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makes this I guess unique

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yeah well this has been this has been

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great um it's something that we have

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needed here pretty desperately for for

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some time you know uh now we've we've

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always had haunted America which is a

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fantastic conference it's a great

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paranormal conference over in in uh

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Alton uh that's Alton Illinois but um

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you know that was really largely

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centered around ghosts and hauntings and

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things of course thus the name haunted

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America

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um and and while it's it's a fantastic

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event it was about the only thing we had

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you know and so having another event

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that actually uh sort of broadens its

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its scope into other areas you know of

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of interest uh it's not just ghosts

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you've got UFOs you've got Cryptids uh

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Alien Abduction you know contact pieces

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all areas of of weirdness I think is

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something that that we've been missing

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for for some time because something that

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I've always been jealous of you know

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especially for everybody living out uh

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out east is how many conferences you

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guys have like there's so many like if

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if you look at just like the the

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Southeastern us and then sort of like

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down into you know like Texas Arkansas

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like Kentucky there are so many

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paranormal conferences and we have had

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like basically none for most of the the

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uh Midwest and now you know other than

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like haunted

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America for for so so long

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um that it's just something that's

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that's been desperately needed and so to

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be at this conference and see it doing

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so well to see the kind of turnout that

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it's in for a first year conference this

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kind of turnout is not something I have

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experienced no Emily and I both have

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been to a lot of first-time conferences

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where you know you're talking to a crowd

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of three people yeah

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yeah and so this is the little like for

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anybody listening this is the literal

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opposite of that like there's so many

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people here it's just what uh what a a

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uh honor frankly to just be able to be a

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part of it you know I'm hoping that this

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will go on for years and years and we'll

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get to say hey we were at the first one

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yeah you know I mean we've been at

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everyone since right and I have no doubt

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you guys are going to be speaking next

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year we just confirmed it okay so

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awesome you heard it here first guys

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the singular 14 Society will be here

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next year speaking Emily what are your

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initial thoughts on the event and maybe

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take it away from it so far I think it's

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really great um it's definitely you can

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definitely tell there's a community here

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in Cape Girardeau that's like kind of

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like finally coming together because I

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know the event company that is putting

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this on

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has done like a Comic Con and an Anime

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Con and I think I think there's a lot of

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I think sometimes those can be kind of

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adjacent to what we do so I think this

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lets all the locals let all their weird

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out

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and really get in dig into what they

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love because I mean we all love like

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anime and Comic-Con conventions too but

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this I think if you really want to dig

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into it this is the opportunity to do

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that so it's cool to see the local

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community kind of rise up and put this

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together and that's the value of it you

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know and I'm glad that that you touched

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on that because literally I think the

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number one thing we hear at events like

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this is how happy so many of the

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attendees are to to finally have a place

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where they can discuss their experiences

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without judgment you know and most

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people don't have that I mean I I know I

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I sound like a broken record but really

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literally the most common uh narrative

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presented to me by Witnesses when they

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they go to share their experiences is

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trying to share them with a loved one

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and being laughed at and you know

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obviously that that leads to people sort

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of shutting down and then they they just

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don't talk about their experience unless

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they meet someone like us or they find

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an event like this and so there is great

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social value I think in having these

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events for people to be able to to

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discuss things that um you know they

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might not dare discuss with you know

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even their their family members right

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well I mean touching on reports now uh I

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believe the last time I had you on

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Tobias we talked about your book Strange

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Tales we also had you on to talk about

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the Lake Michigan so I'd love to ask you

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guys

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um a lot of people you know when you

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hear that there's like a wave of

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something oh

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um it's like there it's there for a

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while and then it's gone

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um but I want to ask you know in terms

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of this like Michigan whoa this weird

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period in time where this winged

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humanoid is being seen in that air area

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of all places uh is this continuing are

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you guys still getting reports over at

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the Society of like these sort of flying

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humanoids or where does that all stand

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yeah you know like we we do still get

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reports and and honestly for the uh

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record

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um people never stop seeing winged

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humanoids in West Virginia either right

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um you know the the collapse of the the

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Silver Bridge didn't signify the ending

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of those sightings it just signified the

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ending of kill's book

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um so in terms of what we've been seeing

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uh around Lake Michigan we do continue

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to to get sightings um you know uh I've

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got one that came in recently from a

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woman down in in Rockford uh where she

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was outside with her uh mother and they

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they saw this uh black uh humanoid

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winged creature you know flying along

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this canal behind their uh their their

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house and

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um

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it was interesting you know because I I

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talked to her at length over the the

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phone

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um

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believed that she'd seen something quite

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strange you know and there's there's

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sort of no denying that uh that this uh

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experience had a

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profound

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um effect on her as as as they so often

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do you know I I just spoke to uh another

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gentleman in uh Madison uh that's

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Madison Wisconsin

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um who uh

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and this is a particularly uh bizarre

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citing reports uh he was at the dog park

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and this is actually a dog park that

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Emily and I used to go to when when we

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lived over there it's a quan dog park

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yeah and uh and he was out there you

275
00:12:00,170 --> 00:11:58,200
know he had his dog he actually had his

276
00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:00,180
infant son strapped to his chest as well

277
00:12:04,370 --> 00:12:01,860
which is important later because it's

278
00:12:06,829 --> 00:12:04,380
why he didn't run after anything and uh

279
00:12:08,269 --> 00:12:06,839
he saw there's his wooded area over by

280
00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:08,279
these these train tracks and there's

281
00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:09,720
there's like a creek with a bridge and

282
00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:12,660
stuff back there and he saw what uh he

283
00:12:16,190 --> 00:12:14,760
described to me as this uh this bulky

284
00:12:17,690 --> 00:12:16,200
shadowy figure he said it looked like

285
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:17,700
maybe it had you know like football

286
00:12:21,350 --> 00:12:19,920
shoulder pads on and like a cloak thrown

287
00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:21,360
over that

288
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:23,339
um and uh it's it's all black and he

289
00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:25,200
says it was kind of peeking out from uh

290
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:27,420
behind a tree at him and that when it IT

291
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,660
noticed that he had noticed it I kind of

292
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,399
hunkered down and spread out as though I

293
00:12:38,269 --> 00:12:35,040
was trying to hide and uh and he watched

294
00:12:40,370 --> 00:12:38,279
it for maybe you know 10 20 seconds and

295
00:12:42,110 --> 00:12:40,380
then he was momentarily uh distracted

296
00:12:44,509 --> 00:12:42,120
because he had pay attention to his dog

297
00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:44,519
and he turns back and and the thing is

298
00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:45,540
gone

299
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:47,100
and um

300
00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:49,680
you know it was a a very strange

301
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:50,700
sighting

302
00:12:56,569 --> 00:12:51,839
um it could have been a lot of things

303
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,579
frankly uh you know I I I can't rule out

304
00:13:00,590 --> 00:12:58,320
um you know there's a there's a a

305
00:13:03,769 --> 00:13:00,600
homeless population in Madison of course

306
00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:03,779
uh and uh it during the summer a lot of

307
00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:06,600
people sleep outside and uh and so the

308
00:13:11,090 --> 00:13:08,100
idea of somebody you know being in a

309
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,100
sleeping bag or something that they were

310
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:13,440
just camping out in those woods because

311
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:16,560
this this was at like 9 00 a.m you know

312
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:19,200
um you don't hear that often right no

313
00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:21,180
that's what's weird about it exactly

314
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,260
exactly

315
00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:23,760
um and so like you have to consider that

316
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:25,500
as a possibility now we haven't been

317
00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:27,600
able to to go out there and check out

318
00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:29,700
the area yet but uh but we'll be headed

319
00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:31,560
out there soon and of course we'll go

320
00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:33,540
back in the the woods and look pretty

321
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:36,060
sign of of habitation you know I'm not

322
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:37,440
gonna go back there and screw with

323
00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:38,959
anybody's stuff

324
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:42,060
to like roust any any you know any any

325
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:44,399
unhoused persons or anything out of that

326
00:13:49,069 --> 00:13:46,740
uh out of out of those woods but we can

327
00:13:50,449 --> 00:13:49,079
look around on safely and sort of see if

328
00:13:52,610 --> 00:13:50,459
it looks like people have been back

329
00:13:54,530 --> 00:13:52,620
there and if and if so

330
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:54,540
um then that's probably mystery Saul but

331
00:13:58,069 --> 00:13:55,620
if not

332
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,079
then I'm sort of at a loss thank you you

333
00:14:03,050 --> 00:14:00,240
know because again this was a guy who uh

334
00:14:05,810 --> 00:14:03,060
who talked to me uh in and and he's very

335
00:14:08,750 --> 00:14:05,820
Earnest uh he certainly wasn't trying to

336
00:14:11,329 --> 00:14:08,760
embellish anything he didn't have his

337
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,339
own real prevailing theory about what it

338
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:13,440
was um you know he mentioned that he had

339
00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:15,360
related it to the the Mothman when he

340
00:14:22,009 --> 00:14:18,120
first told the story because of

341
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:22,019
he sort of uh uh guest that maybe some

342
00:14:25,069 --> 00:14:23,519
of the bulkiness could have could have

343
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,079
been wings I mean it was all very

344
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:27,360
speculative of course but that's not

345
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:28,800
something that you know that's not a

346
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:31,380
hill he was willing to die on right so

347
00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:34,260
you know he he didn't seem like he had a

348
00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:36,540
real agenda or anything that he was

349
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:38,220
pushing in terms of belief or anything

350
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:39,360
so

351
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:42,959
um it's just one of those uh uh weird

352
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:45,839
um reports that you know we'll look into

353
00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:47,519
um and uh and see if we can find

354
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:49,560
anything but at the end of the day we

355
00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:51,480
may just have to be satisfied with not

356
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,639
having an answer yeah but that's that's

357
00:14:58,610 --> 00:14:56,040
so many of these you know that's what

358
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,620
are you gonna do interesting interesting

359
00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:00,720
um and again that's what I respect about

360
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:02,880
what you guys do it's not just the hero

361
00:15:07,550 --> 00:15:06,060
report and that's you know that's it um

362
00:15:09,650 --> 00:15:07,560
you have an intimate knowledge of the

363
00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:09,660
location where this event happened so

364
00:15:14,750 --> 00:15:12,060
you can go investigate you can try to

365
00:15:15,889 --> 00:15:14,760
find it per se explanation which when it

366
00:15:17,810 --> 00:15:15,899
comes down to it that's what we're

367
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,820
looking for when when you can't find

368
00:15:22,129 --> 00:15:19,680
that explanation that's when you have a

369
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:22,139
true unexplained well what I I like to

370
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,260
say is if we don't explain the things we

371
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:27,360
can why would anybody believe us about

372
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:28,860
the things we can't

373
00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:31,920
you know so we absolutely have to you

374
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:34,380
know I I want people to be able to look

375
00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:36,839
at our work and say well look if they

376
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:38,100
couldn't explain it there's a good

377
00:15:41,930 --> 00:15:40,380
chance it can't be explained because by

378
00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:41,940
their reputation we know these are

379
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:45,000
people who are going to go uh and and do

380
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,800
their due diligence to try to explain

381
00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:49,199
something if it's possible right so yes

382
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,699
absolutely

383
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,560
um Emily I'd love to ask I know we kind

384
00:16:06,370 --> 00:15:55,920
of talked off off air here about

385
00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:08,689
it's totally up to you but I would love

386
00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:10,740
to hear about it so this was actually a

387
00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:12,360
case referred to us from a friend of

388
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:14,940
ours Travis Watson and so we've just

389
00:16:20,749 --> 00:16:17,519
started looking into this so this is the

390
00:16:22,249 --> 00:16:20,759
testimony of the uh gentleman that we've

391
00:16:24,769 --> 00:16:22,259
been talking with

392
00:16:27,230 --> 00:16:24,779
back in the 1980s my family would go to

393
00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:27,240
Geneva on the Lake in Ohio Lake Erie to

394
00:16:31,069 --> 00:16:28,980
stay at a cabin every summer

395
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,079
one time I was out past the rock Pier

396
00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:34,079
things playing on an intertube inner

397
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:35,820
tube I'm guessing is that what that says

398
00:16:40,670 --> 00:16:37,920
and I saw what looked like a head from

399
00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:40,680
the mouth of up about 20 yards further

400
00:16:45,889 --> 00:16:42,060
out

401
00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:45,899
the time so I was really confused who it

402
00:16:48,769 --> 00:16:47,100
could have been

403
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:48,779
I watched it for maybe half a minute

404
00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:50,880
then looked back at the beach to see who

405
00:16:53,629 --> 00:16:52,680
it might be but everyone was still on

406
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:53,639
the beach

407
00:16:59,329 --> 00:16:56,880
when I turned around it was gone

408
00:17:01,129 --> 00:16:59,339
I thought maybe it was a log but I spent

409
00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:01,139
the rest of the day watching because it

410
00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:02,820
scared me a lot but nothing else

411
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,899
surfaced

412
00:17:07,309 --> 00:17:05,520
it's one of those childhood memories

413
00:17:09,169 --> 00:17:07,319
that was so profound that when I think

414
00:17:12,049 --> 00:17:09,179
about it I feel like I'm back in that

415
00:17:16,909 --> 00:17:14,809
that's yeah it is it is very interesting

416
00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:16,919
this actually came in because of in

417
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:18,740
appearance that uh that Travis had had

418
00:17:26,029 --> 00:17:23,280
on uh Paul who stall's podcast uh of

419
00:17:27,529 --> 00:17:26,039
monsters and and Mysteries and so the

420
00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:27,539
witness initially reached out to Paul

421
00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:29,700
who then who then sent it to Travis who

422
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:32,100
then sent this to us he was like well

423
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,780
this is weird enough for you guys he

424
00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:36,240
gave a telephone yeah of course so uh

425
00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:38,220
you know and we do have permission to to

426
00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:40,260
reach out to this witness and of being

427
00:17:43,549 --> 00:17:41,820
you know as busy as we have been with

428
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:43,559
the conference we haven't yet done that

429
00:17:48,890 --> 00:17:46,320
but you know um it sounds promising and

430
00:17:52,190 --> 00:17:48,900
it's one of those where

431
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:52,200
um I it's it seems too weird to be made

432
00:17:59,690 --> 00:17:56,160
up you know um I I don't know why

433
00:18:02,990 --> 00:17:59,700
necessarily like uh somebody would

434
00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:03,000
um you know uh try to perpetrate like

435
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:04,980
that kind of hoax and you know I'm not

436
00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:07,620
uh I'm I'm not particularly naive you

437
00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:08,820
know like I understand that there are

438
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,340
people who who like to play pranks and

439
00:18:15,289 --> 00:18:13,440
and and and will make things up but this

440
00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:15,299
doesn't really have a lot of the the

441
00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:18,120
Hallmarks of that to me

442
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:20,220
um you know again just looking at the

443
00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:23,039
actual report submitted

444
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:25,080
um you know it there's not a lot of

445
00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:28,320
added detail uh the guy just talks very

446
00:18:34,010 --> 00:18:31,320
simply about seeing what appeared to be

447
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:34,020
like a humanoid head coming up out of

448
00:18:37,789 --> 00:18:35,760
the water you know

449
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:37,799
um at the the mouth of this River coming

450
00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:40,799
off of Lake Erie so

451
00:18:46,250 --> 00:18:42,780
um yeah I mean on its surface it seems

452
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:46,260
like a a credible enough report you know

453
00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:48,000
because there there are very

454
00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:49,820
responsibilities in terms of

455
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:51,900
misidentifications and Banks like that

456
00:18:56,690 --> 00:18:53,820
but we would have to to consider and so

457
00:19:00,350 --> 00:18:56,700
I wouldn't just because it is

458
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,360
somewhat uh outlandish in terms of the

459
00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:02,880
creature being reported uh you know

460
00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:04,620
that's not enough for me to dismiss

461
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,940
something uh

462
00:19:09,289 --> 00:19:08,160
uh out of hand yeah you know right so

463
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:09,299
it's definitely one that we're going to

464
00:19:12,169 --> 00:19:11,220
be following up on and it should be

465
00:19:15,049 --> 00:19:12,179
pretty interesting you know we have

466
00:19:17,210 --> 00:19:15,059
friends out in Ohio that I think could

467
00:19:18,590 --> 00:19:17,220
could help us investigate this get some

468
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:18,600
boots on the ground and have somebody go

469
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,660
out there and so uh yeah should uh

470
00:19:26,330 --> 00:19:23,280
should lead to something pretty cool I

471
00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:26,340
think open investigation stay tuned guys

472
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:29,880
stay tuned on the merman phenomena

473
00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:32,400
um well you guys have been doing this

474
00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:35,700
for a while and you've investigated

475
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,760
you've um archived and preserved a lot

476
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:41,760
of these stories but what has been some

477
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:42,900
of the

478
00:19:48,529 --> 00:19:45,840
I guess weirdest or most impactful

479
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,539
things you've looked into I I don't know

480
00:19:52,730 --> 00:19:51,120
your guy's beliefs on a lot of this

481
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:52,740
stuff I would assume you're very

482
00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:53,940
objective

483
00:19:59,090 --> 00:19:55,500
um that's what I gather from the the

484
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,100
diligent work you do but um yeah what

485
00:20:03,409 --> 00:20:01,620
are some of those moments and the

486
00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:03,419
journeys that you've had in these topics

487
00:20:07,130 --> 00:20:04,980
that have really stood out to you made

488
00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:07,140
you think wow like

489
00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:09,780
the world is far Stranger than I ever

490
00:20:14,270 --> 00:20:11,640
could have imagined anything stick out

491
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,280
to you guys yeah I think there's been a

492
00:20:19,010 --> 00:20:16,799
couple times you know when when we first

493
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:19,020
started doing this I was more Curious in

494
00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:20,159
the topic

495
00:20:24,649 --> 00:20:21,539
um obviously Tobias had been

496
00:20:26,750 --> 00:20:24,659
investigating with mufon before

497
00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:26,760
um and I'd had my own like couple of

498
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:29,700
experiences but I guess going into this

499
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:32,640
I didn't really expect to experience as

500
00:20:38,890 --> 00:20:35,520
much as we had on investigations we've

501
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:38,900
gone on boots on the ground as described

502
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:42,000
we frequently go out to The Kettle

503
00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:43,440
Moraine State Forest with our friend Jay

504
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,600
bachochin he's a Sasquatch researcher

505
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:46,799
out of

506
00:20:51,890 --> 00:20:49,200
um southeastern Wisconsin

507
00:20:54,649 --> 00:20:51,900
and I have seen some lights in the woods

508
00:20:55,370 --> 00:20:54,659
that I cannot explain

509
00:20:57,710 --> 00:20:55,380
um

510
00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:57,720
I know people like to talk about orbs

511
00:21:03,529 --> 00:21:00,539
and all that stuff but I I mean twice

512
00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:03,539
now I've seen these bright white balls

513
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:05,940
of light one time just soar and Arc over

514
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:08,700
the Treetops and the other time it kind

515
00:21:11,870 --> 00:21:10,260
of like fell straight down amongst the

516
00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:11,880
trees and it's weird because it would

517
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:14,940
illuminate the Treetops it was quiet

518
00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:17,520
and there is no other like weather

519
00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:19,980
explanations that we could find or

520
00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:21,960
aircraft or anything like that that

521
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:23,880
would explain it

522
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:26,340
so seeing those lights out in the woods

523
00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:29,760
that people talk about so often was kind

524
00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:31,260
of wild to me

525
00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:32,940
um and just quickly too I'll mention

526
00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:35,460
that a couple times we've seen haunted

527
00:21:39,409 --> 00:21:37,740
we've been on haunted locations I'm a

528
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:39,419
photographer

529
00:21:45,049 --> 00:21:42,360
and I've had my equipment malfunction in

530
00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:45,059
ways that I cannot explain

531
00:21:51,649 --> 00:21:48,120
so that's been having those experiences

532
00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:51,659
firsthand is just completely wild

533
00:21:57,049 --> 00:21:54,360
there's absolutely weird stuff out there

534
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,059
well and when she says malfunction in a

535
00:22:02,210 --> 00:21:59,039
way that she can't explain uh she means

536
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:02,220
like having the flash detached from her

537
00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:05,280
camera with no batteries in it and it's

538
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:08,340
still going off right like that that

539
00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:11,460
level of yeah of unexplained was this

540
00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:12,539
while you were trying to take

541
00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:15,240
photographs of something oh well we were

542
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,980
this this particular time I mean

543
00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:18,480
obviously there's more of this but this

544
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:20,280
is probably most profound we were at the

545
00:22:25,370 --> 00:22:23,280
L ring and they can't talk we were at

546
00:22:28,190 --> 00:22:25,380
the AL Ringling mansion in Baraboo

547
00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:28,200
Wisconsin and we had been kind of being

548
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:31,620
we're being shown around and we were in

549
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:34,559
between rooms and I wanted to change my

550
00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:38,280
lighting kit for a darker area so we

551
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:40,620
kind of went out into the foyer and I

552
00:22:45,529 --> 00:22:43,620
started I you know I took took my flash

553
00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:45,539
I took the batteries out and all of a

554
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:47,700
sudden it was just going Flash and you

555
00:22:51,049 --> 00:22:49,860
look over me at like oh yeah like

556
00:22:52,610 --> 00:22:51,059
seriously I thought she was just taking

557
00:22:54,409 --> 00:22:52,620
a bunch of pictures with her flash like

558
00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:54,419
right next to my head and I'm like would

559
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:56,580
you knock it off yeah and I see her

560
00:22:59,870 --> 00:22:58,320
she's like it's like she's down on on

561
00:23:01,250 --> 00:22:59,880
one knee like having everything taken

562
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,260
apart and she's just like looking at me

563
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,880
with this confused look on her face with

564
00:23:05,870 --> 00:23:04,559
like the batteries in one hand and the

565
00:23:07,549 --> 00:23:05,880
flash on the other end it's just going

566
00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:07,559
off and I'm like well I don't know and

567
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:09,059
this is all an exorcist I don't know

568
00:23:15,289 --> 00:23:11,400
what's happening here this we had just

569
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:15,299
been in the room that was L ringling's

570
00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:17,760
old office that a lot of people have

571
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:20,760
seen apparitions in and other phenomena

572
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:23,520
so immediately following that that was

573
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,740
interesting and I think at the time if I

574
00:23:30,049 --> 00:23:27,840
recall we were talking about the room a

575
00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:30,059
little bit sure so that I thought that

576
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:32,700
was interesting but I've never I mean

577
00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:34,260
I

578
00:23:39,230 --> 00:23:36,900
it was so frustrating my flash just

579
00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:39,240
going off because I'm like no what are

580
00:23:43,370 --> 00:23:40,980
you doing is it broken what's happening

581
00:23:45,649 --> 00:23:43,380
so well I promise I know whatever and it

582
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:45,659
never happened again no it worked fine I

583
00:23:48,409 --> 00:23:46,799
still have it there should have been no

584
00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:48,419
power source it's right it shouldn't

585
00:23:52,610 --> 00:23:50,100
have been possible which is which is why

586
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:52,620
it's so weird obviously well before to

587
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:54,000
buy a second to

588
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:55,260
um maybe some of your personal

589
00:24:02,090 --> 00:23:58,799
experiences uh the lights in the forest

590
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:02,100
um you know we just watched a talk by um

591
00:24:08,649 --> 00:24:05,580
Ken Gerhart who talked about um he's not

592
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:08,659
a big proponent of these ideas of um

593
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:11,360
Crossing streams as it were

594
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:15,120
phenomenal sure yeah in terms of UFOs

595
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:17,279
Bigfoot and I actually I've been digging

596
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:19,020
into a lot of old Project Blue book

597
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,940
reports where

598
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:22,559
um Bigfoot like creatures have been

599
00:24:29,870 --> 00:24:26,880
cited in correlation with UFOs uh these

600
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,880
are official documents right um so you

601
00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:32,159
can't really ignore that in my personal

602
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:33,480
opinion

603
00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:36,559
um what do you think about these ideas

604
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:39,299
are they connected is there I think it's

605
00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:41,100
totally passable and I think you know

606
00:24:45,169 --> 00:24:43,080
before I got into this I think it's and

607
00:24:48,049 --> 00:24:45,179
I think this I still entertain this

608
00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:48,059
obviously like I think to most people an

609
00:24:51,769 --> 00:24:50,340
Undiscovered biological creature makes

610
00:24:54,049 --> 00:24:51,779
the most sense

611
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,059
within it but um you know and it

612
00:24:59,810 --> 00:24:56,159
probably several years ago I would have

613
00:25:02,029 --> 00:24:59,820
been like Bigfoot new no no but like it

614
00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:02,039
to me it makes more sense almost than

615
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:06,360
the natural explanation because I I do

616
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,880
think the universe is a huge place I do

617
00:25:12,649 --> 00:25:10,799
think we've been visited I think they're

618
00:25:14,210 --> 00:25:12,659
aware of us I think there's absolutely

619
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:14,220
aliens out there

620
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:17,279
who's to say that Bigfoot isn't an alien

621
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,580
and that's a UFO put it down and he's

622
00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:22,080
checking it out and he can go back up

623
00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:24,360
you know like I I think there's some

624
00:25:28,669 --> 00:25:26,220
sense to that I know it sounds crazy but

625
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:28,679
it it makes more sense to me than like

626
00:25:34,669 --> 00:25:31,860
portal bigfoots or which I don't dismiss

627
00:25:36,669 --> 00:25:34,679
but of all the theories I think

628
00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:36,679
that the

629
00:25:41,630 --> 00:25:39,480
you know who's to say that a furry human

630
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:41,640
it looks almost human like we do but

631
00:25:45,529 --> 00:25:43,440
who's to say that that's not from

632
00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:45,539
another planet or something so I think

633
00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:47,880
it does make sense to me interesting

634
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:50,340
what are your thoughts on that I don't

635
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:53,520
think that we should just miss the fact

636
00:25:59,690 --> 00:25:57,120
that these uh seemingly disparate

637
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,700
phenomena are so often reported in the

638
00:26:03,049 --> 00:26:01,440
same areas

639
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:03,059
um I I think that it would be

640
00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:06,960
irresponsible to to dismiss that

641
00:26:13,490 --> 00:26:10,679
um beyond that I don't have a you know

642
00:26:15,289 --> 00:26:13,500
any working hypothesis to to explain it

643
00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:15,299
and in correlation of course doesn't

644
00:26:20,810 --> 00:26:18,419
mean causation so so we don't know for

645
00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:20,820
sure that these things are you know have

646
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:23,580
to be connected in some way um I will

647
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:24,480
say

648
00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:26,100
um you know when we're talking about

649
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,100
lights you know in the The Kettle um

650
00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:31,679
they're not craft you know unless it's

651
00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:34,260
something uh we would have to sort of

652
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:37,320
redefine same craft I I suppose yeah you

653
00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:39,240
know because they they really are just

654
00:26:43,549 --> 00:26:41,100
anomalous lights and so you think about

655
00:26:44,990 --> 00:26:43,559
like a light maybe basketball size you

656
00:26:48,529 --> 00:26:45,000
know floating around

657
00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:48,539
um and so I I don't know that that I

658
00:26:52,669 --> 00:26:49,980
have personally seen anything that would

659
00:26:55,549 --> 00:26:52,679
lead me to believe that um there are

660
00:26:57,409 --> 00:26:55,559
nuts and bolts you know uh ET craft

661
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,419
coming down dropping off Bigfoot or

662
00:27:01,070 --> 00:26:59,520
piloted by Bigfoot or anything like that

663
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:01,080
um I I will say that there has been some

664
00:27:06,769 --> 00:27:05,279
compelling uh witness testimony to that

665
00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:06,779
effect which you mentioned of course

666
00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:09,059
already documented in things like

667
00:27:12,529 --> 00:27:10,860
Project Blue Book which is all very

668
00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:12,539
interesting but you know I I don't know

669
00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:14,760
that any of the the nuts and bolts uh

670
00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:17,580
E.T crafter actually you know uh

671
00:27:22,490 --> 00:27:21,059
physical craft in in the way that we

672
00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:22,500
would conceive of it as opposed to

673
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:24,600
something stranger some sort of

674
00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:26,700
projection or or Illusion or

675
00:27:29,870 --> 00:27:28,380
manipulation or something in some way

676
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,880
especially when you get into really high

677
00:27:32,990 --> 00:27:31,679
strange and stuff like like like Bigfoot

678
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:33,000
driving it

679
00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:34,559
um you know it almost takes on this this

680
00:27:42,250 --> 00:27:38,460
dreamlike quality uh you know of of that

681
00:27:45,169 --> 00:27:42,260
that Oz Factor you know of of just being

682
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:45,179
so very very strange that it's difficult

683
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:48,360
to sort of reconcile it using

684
00:27:54,529 --> 00:27:50,640
um our current you know understanding of

685
00:27:57,049 --> 00:27:54,539
like uh the the material uh Universe

686
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:57,059
um and so I guess you know when it if if

687
00:28:01,610 --> 00:27:59,039
I want to speculate

688
00:28:05,090 --> 00:28:01,620
you know I I think that you know maybe

689
00:28:06,350 --> 00:28:05,100
something uh similar to to what

690
00:28:08,029 --> 00:28:06,360
um you know like Keel would say about

691
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:08,039
Ultra terrestrials or something where

692
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:11,279
you know he would note uh uh anomalous

693
00:28:15,649 --> 00:28:13,440
lights being seen in the same areas as

694
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:15,659
as these creature sightings and

695
00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:18,240
I I think what his thing was that the

696
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,520
creatures themselves were projections of

697
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:22,080
some sort and the lights themselves

698
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:24,960
might actually be the actual uh entities

699
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:26,820
or how they really

700
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:28,200
appear

701
00:28:31,549 --> 00:28:30,000
um which is an interesting idea and I

702
00:28:33,529 --> 00:28:31,559
don't know that to be true

703
00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:33,539
um you know but it does lead me to

704
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:34,760
speculate about things like

705
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:37,140
interdimensionality and you know maybe

706
00:28:42,889 --> 00:28:39,240
lights being some sort of like epic

707
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:42,899
phenomenon that is a byproduct of of you

708
00:28:45,529 --> 00:28:43,760
know

709
00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:45,539
interdimensional travel or something

710
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,640
similar there's a lot of weird places

711
00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:49,440
you can actually go with it um it's all

712
00:28:54,590 --> 00:28:51,720
of course Very unproven I do think that

713
00:28:57,409 --> 00:28:54,600
we should be willing to let our minds

714
00:28:59,690 --> 00:28:57,419
wander in those directions instead of

715
00:29:01,970 --> 00:28:59,700
just you know automatically dismissing

716
00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:01,980
them as as crazy because

717
00:29:08,029 --> 00:29:05,220
I think if there's one thing that

718
00:29:09,889 --> 00:29:08,039
um you know we we should have learned uh

719
00:29:13,789 --> 00:29:09,899
throughout the uh the history of human

720
00:29:16,570 --> 00:29:13,799
civilization is that um Imagination and

721
00:29:20,930 --> 00:29:16,580
uh and and speculation are

722
00:29:23,149 --> 00:29:20,940
driving forces behind Discovery and uh

723
00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:23,159
and and when we limit those we we limit

724
00:29:28,610 --> 00:29:25,500
ourselves and we we limit what's

725
00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:28,620
possible and um and I I don't think

726
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:30,120
that's going to be doing us any favors

727
00:29:34,490 --> 00:29:31,860
in terms of actually investigating this

728
00:29:36,769 --> 00:29:34,500
stuff so the world is full of dreamers

729
00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:36,779
and without them like where would we be

730
00:29:41,389 --> 00:29:39,140
today look at like science fiction

731
00:29:43,810 --> 00:29:41,399
eventually most of it become science

732
00:29:46,190 --> 00:29:43,820
fact and if it weren't for these

733
00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:46,200
forward-thinking people like where would

734
00:29:51,169 --> 00:29:47,700
we be today I think you're right it

735
00:29:53,090 --> 00:29:51,179
really does uh limit the possibilities I

736
00:29:56,510 --> 00:29:53,100
know when I first got involved with UFOs

737
00:30:00,289 --> 00:29:56,520
and I get reports that would have really

738
00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:00,299
high strangeness aspects or um you know

739
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:02,460
they would claim to be abducted but then

740
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:05,279
over there is uh one of their their

741
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,080
loved ones who had passed away I'm like

742
00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:09,840
whoa okay I can't deal with both of

743
00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:12,779
these let's focus on the UFO whereas now

744
00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:15,720
I'm like looking at back at past Ryan

745
00:30:19,490 --> 00:30:17,100
and being like what the hell are you

746
00:30:21,230 --> 00:30:19,500
thinking like that's part of the data

747
00:30:24,409 --> 00:30:21,240
that's part of the report that's part of

748
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,419
this person's experience you have to you

749
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:26,640
have to at least like you said entertain

750
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:28,559
that and look at it

751
00:30:33,470 --> 00:30:31,679
um and I think now I've learned if we're

752
00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:33,480
going to use like photography like to

753
00:30:37,010 --> 00:30:35,640
zoom out more look at the bigger picture

754
00:30:39,649 --> 00:30:37,020
and realize that there can be

755
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,659
connections or maybe not but you have to

756
00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:42,000
at least look at it so right I love that

757
00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:44,220
I love that well Tobias what are what

758
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:46,380
have been some of your most impactful or

759
00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:49,080
weirdest or strangest reports or

760
00:30:54,049 --> 00:30:51,240
investigations you've been on sure what

761
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:54,059
what has made you guys be like

762
00:30:58,269 --> 00:30:56,159
you bird like oh my gosh I can't believe

763
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,279
her this is our lives

764
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:00,960
well you know for for me of course now I

765
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:03,840
I got into this because of a lifetime of

766
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:07,200
of you know seemingly paranormal

767
00:31:12,889 --> 00:31:10,140
phenomena happening to and around me but

768
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:12,899
you know putting that aside because yeah

769
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:15,360
it's it's one thing for me to to to make

770
00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:17,580
a claim you know that uh that is

771
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:20,700
personal personal to me um I would say

772
00:31:27,470 --> 00:31:25,440
that the most impactful uh reports and

773
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,480
that we've received in cases we've

774
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:29,760
investigated are those where I can

775
00:31:35,630 --> 00:31:32,640
really see the profound effect that the

776
00:31:37,970 --> 00:31:35,640
experiences had on the uh witness and so

777
00:31:41,529 --> 00:31:37,980
there are a couple of those you know I'm

778
00:31:44,090 --> 00:31:41,539
I'm reminded of uh Mukwonago Wisconsin

779
00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:44,100
where there was a winged humanoid

780
00:31:48,049 --> 00:31:45,960
sighting and for anybody who's not

781
00:31:51,529 --> 00:31:48,059
familiar uh it's basically this this

782
00:31:54,049 --> 00:31:51,539
this small rural community uh just south

783
00:31:55,490 --> 00:31:54,059
of Milwaukee basically

784
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:55,500
and um

785
00:32:01,610 --> 00:31:58,080
and meeting this gentleman Who had who

786
00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:01,620
had contacted us about uh his experience

787
00:32:06,110 --> 00:32:03,720
in in broad daylight and sort of seeing

788
00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:06,120
the fear and confusion on his face and

789
00:32:12,409 --> 00:32:09,480
and how difficult it was for him to to

790
00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:12,419
speak about it and how weird and awkward

791
00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:14,580
it must have been for him to be willing

792
00:32:20,029 --> 00:32:17,460
to let these two strangers come to his

793
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,039
house and show us around

794
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:22,080
um and and everything that had to go

795
00:32:27,950 --> 00:32:25,200
into that and uh and how anybody

796
00:32:30,769 --> 00:32:27,960
could take those things into

797
00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:30,779
consideration and not take that man's

798
00:32:37,009 --> 00:32:35,460
experience seriously is offensive it is

799
00:32:37,970 --> 00:32:37,019
um because regardless of what you think

800
00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:37,980
happened

801
00:32:47,450 --> 00:32:43,620
and uh and because of that I think we

802
00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:47,460
owe people the the common decency of of

803
00:32:51,289 --> 00:32:49,860
respecting their experiences and taking

804
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,299
them seriously

805
00:32:56,210 --> 00:32:53,580
I love that it reminds me you know I

806
00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:56,220
spent a weekend in the woods in the

807
00:33:01,789 --> 00:32:58,620
Adirondack Mountains with a group of

808
00:33:04,669 --> 00:33:01,799
alien abductees I was invited to come

809
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,679
and just experience whatever that would

810
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:07,200
be and I remember being

811
00:33:13,130 --> 00:33:10,080
having so many feelings before going of

812
00:33:16,669 --> 00:33:13,140
like anticipation of like what could

813
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:16,679
happen or what wouldn't happen

814
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,399
um and I just remember being like just

815
00:33:25,549 --> 00:33:23,039
go just go and experience it don't have

816
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:25,559
any preconceived notions or judgment on

817
00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:28,320
these people and you know I I kind of

818
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:30,539
went into that this is early on in my my

819
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:33,000
investigative days of um

820
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:35,880
of being like this will make a cool

821
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:39,480
story and I look back at myself and how

822
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:42,240
naive that was to be like wow cool story

823
00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:45,179
bro but but when you actually get there

824
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:47,640
and you meet these people and you see

825
00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:50,399
how it affects them I mean we had times

826
00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:52,200
where we were sitting around a you know

827
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,299
campfire and people were breaking down

828
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:56,880
crying and like what do you do with them

829
00:34:00,830 --> 00:33:58,799
that this this person went through

830
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:00,840
something clearly true no matter what it

831
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:03,000
was right and it affected me

832
00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:04,740
um and I think that was a moment for me

833
00:34:11,629 --> 00:34:08,040
to really um you know become humble and

834
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:11,639
realize wow like this this is not just a

835
00:34:15,770 --> 00:34:13,679
story this is so much more to this

836
00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:15,780
person and ultimately it could you know

837
00:34:20,329 --> 00:34:17,820
be have profound implications on

838
00:34:22,970 --> 00:34:20,339
Humanity if any of this is true aliens

839
00:34:26,290 --> 00:34:22,980
are actually abducting people like just

840
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:26,300
think of the um the ethical

841
00:34:30,889 --> 00:34:29,040
moral dilemmas that we have with that if

842
00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:30,899
they were to finally show themselves and

843
00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:33,540
and we say look at what you've done to

844
00:34:40,190 --> 00:34:37,020
us for whatever 70 plus years of taking

845
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:40,200
us and like what do you do with that so

846
00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:43,919
I I love that idea of no matter what

847
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:45,720
happened or paying that respect to the

848
00:34:50,329 --> 00:34:47,700
individual who had the courage to come

849
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:50,339
forward I think that's that's terrible

850
00:34:56,089 --> 00:34:53,760
for sure for sure well I gotta ask you

851
00:34:58,730 --> 00:34:56,099
guys what comes next I know you're

852
00:35:01,790 --> 00:34:58,740
always on investigations

853
00:35:03,890 --> 00:35:01,800
um you've got books you've got articles

854
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,900
um yeah what comes next for the singular

855
00:35:07,849 --> 00:35:05,760
propane system well you know we're we're

856
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:07,859
going to continue covering weird news

857
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:11,160
like like uh we we always do but we do

858
00:35:14,270 --> 00:35:12,960
have a book project that uh that we're

859
00:35:15,950 --> 00:35:14,280
pretty excited about

860
00:35:17,569 --> 00:35:15,960
um called the the singular 40 and

861
00:35:20,089 --> 00:35:17,579
societies you will type guide to high

862
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:20,099
strangers and uh it's it's going to be

863
00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:21,960
written by me and then illustrated by by

864
00:35:25,609 --> 00:35:23,400
Emily and she's already got some

865
00:35:29,450 --> 00:35:25,619
fantastic illustrations that she's made

866
00:35:33,770 --> 00:35:29,460
and and um and basically what it's what

867
00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:33,780
it's shaping up to to be is a sort of uh

868
00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:38,280
uh comparative analysis of of Yuletide

869
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:42,060
myths and legends uh alongside modern

870
00:35:47,210 --> 00:35:45,180
day paranormal reports you know so I can

871
00:35:49,609 --> 00:35:47,220
give you in an example you know there's

872
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:49,619
something in Iceland called the Yule cat

873
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:52,020
and the legend of this you will get is

874
00:35:57,770 --> 00:35:54,660
that it is uh this black cat as big as a

875
00:35:59,930 --> 00:35:57,780
house that if you do not receive a wool

876
00:36:03,410 --> 00:35:59,940
sweater as a gift after the Harvest uh

877
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:03,420
you might be considered lazy and uh if

878
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:06,960
if you are so unfortunately judged

879
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:08,640
um this thing is going to snatch you

880
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,160
away and and and eat you like you're

881
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:12,720
you're just done

882
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:15,540
and if you look at certain folklorists

883
00:36:19,849 --> 00:36:18,780
like I believe Jan arneson is is one

884
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:19,859
example

885
00:36:24,349 --> 00:36:22,200
um excuse me there are folklorists who

886
00:36:27,410 --> 00:36:24,359
believe that

887
00:36:31,370 --> 00:36:27,420
um this Legend arose out of a real

888
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:31,380
belief in in some kind of creature like

889
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:34,560
this now there's a good chance that its

890
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:36,780
size has been exaggerated over the years

891
00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:39,599
until now it's as big as a house but it

892
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:41,940
could have started off much smaller

893
00:36:47,930 --> 00:36:44,880
um you know say the size of a a big cat

894
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:47,940
you know like a panther or you know lion

895
00:36:52,370 --> 00:36:49,920
or something as you think of a baguette

896
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,380
and the fun thing about that is

897
00:36:58,609 --> 00:36:55,200
we still have people reporting Black

898
00:37:02,390 --> 00:36:58,619
Phantom big cats you know that happens

899
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:02,400
today and so what I have to consider

900
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:06,900
then is is it possible that this this

901
00:37:11,930 --> 00:37:09,300
particular Legend at least in part has

902
00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:11,940
arisen out of you know people's uh

903
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:14,760
experiences with something that we're

904
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:17,160
still experiencing a a mystery that that

905
00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:19,560
still hasn't been solved you know and so

906
00:37:24,349 --> 00:37:21,060
like that I think is going to be really

907
00:37:27,170 --> 00:37:24,359
the the the core of of what we're we're

908
00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:27,180
getting at with this next word I mean

909
00:37:33,410 --> 00:37:30,560
it's the ultimate stuff stocking stepper

910
00:37:35,569 --> 00:37:33,420
literally yeah there's even if you're

911
00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:35,579
just interested in in the actual Legends

912
00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:36,780
like of course they're all going to be

913
00:37:40,730 --> 00:37:39,000
in there and researched and and their

914
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,740
Origins at least from what we can find

915
00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:42,480
because you know something that that I

916
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,460
found in trying to to research his stuff

917
00:37:48,589 --> 00:37:47,040
is we don't know where a lot of the

918
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,599
things that we still talk about came

919
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,359
from we just don't you know like a lot

920
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,800
of it has been lost to history much of

921
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,480
it was never written down and so we've

922
00:37:58,190 --> 00:37:56,640
got you know Word of Mouth stories

923
00:38:00,829 --> 00:37:58,200
passed through generations you know like

924
00:38:03,290 --> 00:38:00,839
most of my ancestors uh up until you

925
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:03,300
know I uh uh uh Christian conversion

926
00:38:07,730 --> 00:38:05,760
they didn't have written language you

927
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:07,740
know like you think about like the the

928
00:38:12,410 --> 00:38:09,839
Germanic tribes and stuff like they

929
00:38:13,930 --> 00:38:12,420
weren't writing books with runes you

930
00:38:18,109 --> 00:38:13,940
know like that's not what those were for

931
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:18,119
so if anything was uh recorded it was

932
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:21,119
recorded by you know Roman historians or

933
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:22,560
you know or later on like Christian

934
00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:24,900
monks or something you know um and that

935
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:27,900
was it which has led to some real issues

936
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,760
with trying to find out where a lot of

937
00:38:34,430 --> 00:38:32,160
this stuff like the the the origins of

938
00:38:36,170 --> 00:38:34,440
of much of these stories so

939
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:36,180
um it's it's just endlessly fascinating

940
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:38,880
to me it is it you know that that that

941
00:38:43,250 --> 00:38:41,940
asking questions and the mythologies

942
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,260
that have been created throughout

943
00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:46,079
history it really does like say more

944
00:38:51,410 --> 00:38:49,020
about us than what the actual myths are

945
00:38:53,569 --> 00:38:51,420
in measures you know putting that mirror

946
00:38:55,849 --> 00:38:53,579
back at ourselves I think and trying to

947
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:55,859
understand where we all come from and

948
00:39:00,050 --> 00:38:58,260
the meaning of all of this I think it's

949
00:39:02,810 --> 00:39:00,060
it's big it's broad it's sweeping and

950
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:02,820
it's profound and I just I love that you

951
00:39:05,630 --> 00:39:04,680
guys are tackling these things day by

952
00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:05,640
day

953
00:39:09,710 --> 00:39:08,099
um so of course last question where can

954
00:39:12,250 --> 00:39:09,720
we find everything you guys are up to

955
00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:12,260
all right well you can find us on

956
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:15,180
singular40n.com WE of course are on most

957
00:39:20,690 --> 00:39:17,220
of the social media platforms out there

958
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:20,700
are handled for Twitter Instagram and

959
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:25,140
Facebook will be at singular 40n and uh

960
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:28,920
we've got a patreon and a YouTube so

961
00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:31,560
yeah check us out online

962
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,550
please support the ultimate power

963
00:39:37,010 --> 00:39:35,760
[Laughter]

964
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:37,020
yes thank you for joining me on

965
00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:38,880
somewhere in the skies thank you so much

966
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,260
for having us Ryan always a pleasure

967
00:39:46,250 --> 00:39:42,720
absolutely

968
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:46,260
Bigfoot versus Nessie so with me right

969
00:39:50,030 --> 00:39:47,940
now guys for the very first time I

970
00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:50,040
believe on somewhere in the skies is Ken

971
00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:52,859
Gerhart welcome my man thank you Ryan I

972
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,780
appreciate you having me on and it's

973
00:39:58,849 --> 00:39:56,160
good to see you it's good to meet you in

974
00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:58,859
person at last I don't think we've ever

975
00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:01,320
crossed paths before I I don't I

976
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:02,940
couldn't remember maybe we have and it's

977
00:40:06,829 --> 00:40:04,680
just one of those things that we've

978
00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:06,839
forgotten but um yeah it's great to be

979
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:08,579
here with you man thank you having a

980
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:10,319
good time at this event it's been great

981
00:40:15,290 --> 00:40:11,880
you know and I've been a big fan of your

982
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:15,300
work for a long time as a uh a UFO guy

983
00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:17,760
we don't have that many um we don't have

984
00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:19,460
the luxury of speaking to

985
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:21,180
cryptozoologists and people who look

986
00:40:25,609 --> 00:40:23,579
into the other facets of the unknown you

987
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:25,619
know it's an echo chamber UFO

988
00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:28,020
researchers talking about the latest UFO

989
00:40:31,790 --> 00:40:30,119
case but what I really like about this

990
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,800
conference is we're getting a little bit

991
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:33,599
of everything paranormal Supernatural

992
00:40:39,230 --> 00:40:36,720
cryptic Zoological UFOs and um that's

993
00:40:40,730 --> 00:40:39,240
why I love that we can go see each

994
00:40:43,550 --> 00:40:40,740
other's lectures there's time to

995
00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:43,560
actually do that absolutely yeah I I'm

996
00:40:48,349 --> 00:40:45,900
interested in all of it as well and uh

997
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:48,359
you know I'm obviously I specialize in

998
00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:50,640
cryptozoology I always tell people I'm

999
00:40:54,770 --> 00:40:52,680
very open-minded I'm curious person by

1000
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:54,780
nature and I love you know learning

1001
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,359
about UFOs and paranormal and just

1002
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:59,040
hearing what different people have to

1003
00:41:02,450 --> 00:41:00,480
say and their perspectives and their

1004
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,460
research it's always kind of a good time

1005
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:04,079
absolutely and I like that you're

1006
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,000
open-minded like that because in often

1007
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,160
in these fields there's cam

1008
00:41:13,490 --> 00:41:10,319
the UFO people the ghost people the the

1009
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,500
Bigfoot people and None Shall they meet

1010
00:41:16,670 --> 00:41:14,880
um and I want to get your thoughts on

1011
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:16,680
that a little bit later in the

1012
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,000
conversation we should have touched on

1013
00:41:21,470 --> 00:41:20,160
that in your lecture but um first can

1014
00:41:23,450 --> 00:41:21,480
you tell us a little about what your

1015
00:41:26,510 --> 00:41:23,460
lecture was about today kind of the um

1016
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:26,520
the argument I guess you set up and um

1017
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,680
and and yeah tell us a little about what

1018
00:41:33,170 --> 00:41:30,480
you spoke about yeah thanks

1019
00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:33,180
um I I did a presentation that I titled

1020
00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:35,940
Nessie versus Bigfoot and it was

1021
00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:37,740
actually inspired by Godzilla versus

1022
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:39,420
King Kong

1023
00:41:43,609 --> 00:41:41,880
which I think uh it occurred to me last

1024
00:41:46,450 --> 00:41:43,619
year when I was watching that movie that

1025
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:46,460
uh you know these are two archetypes

1026
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:49,380
that are obviously represented in pop

1027
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:51,420
culture and movies you always have these

1028
00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:55,440
big hairy ape man like King Kong and uh

1029
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:56,760
you know things like that and then of

1030
00:42:02,569 --> 00:41:59,280
course Godzilla to me kind of represents

1031
00:42:05,450 --> 00:42:02,579
the uh the archetype of the Aquatic

1032
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,460
reptilian monster kind of serpentine or

1033
00:42:09,890 --> 00:42:07,920
whatever and um yeah so I just basically

1034
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,900
wanted to present an argument for both

1035
00:42:14,809 --> 00:42:11,760
of those Cryptids which are very both

1036
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,819
very popular very enduring Cryptids and

1037
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:16,319
just talk about you know the best

1038
00:42:21,710 --> 00:42:18,900
evidence available a lot of it you know

1039
00:42:24,650 --> 00:42:21,720
people aren't familiar with and uh

1040
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:24,660
ultimately you know ask the audience to

1041
00:42:27,950 --> 00:42:26,040
kind of form their own conclusion and

1042
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:27,960
vote and see you know which one do you

1043
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:30,839
think is more likely to exist based on

1044
00:42:33,290 --> 00:42:31,920
you know the evidence that I've

1045
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:33,300
presented so that was kind of the theme

1046
00:42:37,849 --> 00:42:35,940
right and I know you have books on both

1047
00:42:40,609 --> 00:42:37,859
you know essential guides to each of

1048
00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:40,619
these I do and um you have a lot of

1049
00:42:45,170 --> 00:42:42,660
documented cases in the books that I

1050
00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:45,180
highly recommend people check out but um

1051
00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:46,920
would you be willing to tease a little

1052
00:42:50,809 --> 00:42:48,660
bit of that evidence with us for each

1053
00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:50,819
maybe a little bit about Nessie what the

1054
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,200
most compelling evidence you've come

1055
00:42:56,270 --> 00:42:54,720
across yeah absolutely so first of all

1056
00:42:58,609 --> 00:42:56,280
and I'm sure it's the same in the UFO

1057
00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:58,619
field or paranormal whatever but one of

1058
00:43:01,250 --> 00:42:59,700
the first things that has to be

1059
00:43:02,809 --> 00:43:01,260
addressed I think is that there are a

1060
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:02,819
lot of misconceptions there's always a

1061
00:43:07,069 --> 00:43:04,980
lot of misinformation out there people

1062
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:07,079
maybe read a book a long time ago or saw

1063
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:09,119
one TV show and have drawn you know

1064
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:12,000
conclusions from that and uh so in terms

1065
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:14,700
of Nessie the Loch Ness monster you know

1066
00:43:19,130 --> 00:43:16,920
one of the big misconceptions is that oh

1067
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,140
all that happened a long time ago you

1068
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:21,119
know way back all years and years ago

1069
00:43:25,730 --> 00:43:23,640
but I've actually you know I'm in and I

1070
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:25,740
correspond with researchers uh there's a

1071
00:43:29,329 --> 00:43:27,240
guy named Steve Felton who's been on

1072
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,339
Loch Ness for 30 years doing he's the

1073
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:31,920
go-to guy there and he gets about 10

1074
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:34,440
good reports sightings every year you're

1075
00:43:38,809 --> 00:43:37,020
still and so that you know that's the

1076
00:43:40,130 --> 00:43:38,819
thing is it's Nessie is an ongoing

1077
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:40,140
phenomenon it's not something that

1078
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:42,420
happened way back in the 1930s 60s or

1079
00:43:47,690 --> 00:43:44,940
70s or whatever another thing I like to

1080
00:43:49,069 --> 00:43:47,700
talk about is the sonar evidence and a

1081
00:43:50,569 --> 00:43:49,079
lot of people like to fixate on the

1082
00:43:53,089 --> 00:43:50,579
photographic evidence which is cool

1083
00:43:56,530 --> 00:43:53,099
there are a lot of alleged photographs

1084
00:43:58,730 --> 00:43:56,540
of Nessie dating back to the 1930s

1085
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,740
many of those have been proven through

1086
00:44:03,410 --> 00:44:01,440
the years to be hoaxes and people don't

1087
00:44:04,490 --> 00:44:03,420
realize that they still are kind of you

1088
00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:04,500
know supporting a lot of the

1089
00:44:08,030 --> 00:44:05,880
photographic evidence there are some

1090
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:08,040
good videos and films out there but uh

1091
00:44:13,490 --> 00:44:11,040
many that have been debunked and uh so

1092
00:44:14,930 --> 00:44:13,500
you know I asked people to kind of you

1093
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:14,940
know be a little more objective and

1094
00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:17,520
critical about the um challenge the

1095
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:20,220
photographic evidence but the sonar

1096
00:44:23,450 --> 00:44:21,599
evidence is what I think people really

1097
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:23,460
Overlook and you know many people are

1098
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:24,960
not aware of the fact Ryan that there

1099
00:44:31,390 --> 00:44:28,260
have been dozens of sonar contacts

1100
00:44:33,890 --> 00:44:31,400
dating back to 1954 of large

1101
00:44:35,450 --> 00:44:33,900
unidentified animate things swimming

1102
00:44:37,970 --> 00:44:35,460
around under the water

1103
00:44:40,849 --> 00:44:37,980
uh many of these sonar contacts have

1104
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:40,859
been analyzed by sonar experts and

1105
00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:43,680
scientists and who basically determined

1106
00:44:47,809 --> 00:44:45,839
that there is something unusual under

1107
00:44:49,849 --> 00:44:47,819
under the water in Loch Ness moving

1108
00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:49,859
around and they're very large and and

1109
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:52,440
they move around so um so I think that's

1110
00:44:56,510 --> 00:44:55,020
very compelling and also you know the

1111
00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:56,520
the eyewitness accounts are very

1112
00:45:00,970 --> 00:44:58,500
consistent

1113
00:45:03,890 --> 00:45:00,980
um and again a misconception is that

1114
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,900
Nessie is basically a small-headed

1115
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:06,000
long-necked animal that sticks its head

1116
00:45:10,730 --> 00:45:07,680
out of the water like a sort of an

1117
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:10,740
aquatic giraffe or a plesiosaur which is

1118
00:45:16,490 --> 00:45:14,400
a prehistoric reptile when in fact 85

1119
00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:16,500
percent of the reports describe a big

1120
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:19,140
hump or several big humps that are just

1121
00:45:22,609 --> 00:45:20,760
protruding out of the water like an

1122
00:45:25,849 --> 00:45:22,619
upturned boat and that's what most

1123
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:25,859
people describe and smooth skin and so

1124
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:28,319
as an investigator I find that you know

1125
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,140
that consistency in the descriptions you

1126
00:45:36,530 --> 00:45:33,359
know and and again you could expand that

1127
00:45:38,030 --> 00:45:36,540
to worldwide and you know beyond Loch

1128
00:45:39,710 --> 00:45:38,040
Ness of course you have lake monsters

1129
00:45:42,349 --> 00:45:39,720
that are reported here in the U.S the

1130
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:42,359
Lake Champlain monster in Canada there's

1131
00:45:46,970 --> 00:45:45,180
Ogopogo and many others around the world

1132
00:45:48,650 --> 00:45:46,980
you have similar lake monsters that are

1133
00:45:50,210 --> 00:45:48,660
reported so

1134
00:45:52,970 --> 00:45:50,220
um so yeah I think that you know the the

1135
00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:52,980
case for the Loch Ness Monster is you

1136
00:45:55,849 --> 00:45:54,180
know the fact that you have these

1137
00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:55,859
consistent eyewitness descriptions that

1138
00:46:01,550 --> 00:45:58,920
go back decades

1139
00:46:03,530 --> 00:46:01,560
um from seeing incredible people and uh

1140
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:03,540
then you have the sonar evidence

1141
00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:05,400
and then you know going back in history

1142
00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:07,160
of course you can find things like

1143
00:46:11,930 --> 00:46:09,660
Nessie and different mythologies and

1144
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,940
folklores around the world

1145
00:46:16,609 --> 00:46:14,160
Native American folklore Scottish

1146
00:46:18,109 --> 00:46:16,619
folklore or whatever so no

1147
00:46:19,849 --> 00:46:18,119
um I want to ask you this question

1148
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,859
because this is an argument a lot of

1149
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:21,839
Skeptics like to make with Loch Ness

1150
00:46:28,609 --> 00:46:26,640
specifically is this idea of a you've

1151
00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:28,619
got the salt water versus fresh water

1152
00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:30,900
debate you know that something like that

1153
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:33,960
could not survive in the walk you know

1154
00:46:37,490 --> 00:46:35,760
because of that um what do you say to

1155
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:37,500
that like you know you know this

1156
00:46:42,349 --> 00:46:40,079
creature couldn't live if it was that

1157
00:46:43,970 --> 00:46:42,359
big it would not be able to survive in

1158
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,980
this fresh water

1159
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:45,599
um yeah what's up with all that yeah

1160
00:46:49,370 --> 00:46:47,099
well certainly

1161
00:46:51,710 --> 00:46:49,380
um you know there are smaller species

1162
00:46:53,569 --> 00:46:51,720
that are called andronomists that travel

1163
00:46:56,270 --> 00:46:53,579
from fresh water to salt water in fact

1164
00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:56,280
Loch Ness has examples of andronomous

1165
00:46:59,569 --> 00:46:57,780
species like

1166
00:47:02,030 --> 00:46:59,579
um salmon there are salmon runs that

1167
00:47:04,250 --> 00:47:02,040
come into Loch Ness from the ocean uh

1168
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:04,260
annually there are eels populations of

1169
00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:06,180
eels that travel into the Atlantic Ocean

1170
00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:08,280
to spawn and then come back in when

1171
00:47:13,970 --> 00:47:11,460
they're mature so but not larger species

1172
00:47:15,710 --> 00:47:13,980
you're right about that there are also

1173
00:47:18,530 --> 00:47:15,720
invasive things that come into Loch Ness

1174
00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:18,540
like seals that occasionally come into

1175
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:20,220
Loch Ness

1176
00:47:24,589 --> 00:47:21,900
um so you know you have to look at these

1177
00:47:27,890 --> 00:47:24,599
things in terms of you know uh the

1178
00:47:31,069 --> 00:47:27,900
zoology the Zoological aspect which is

1179
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:31,079
that obviously something like a fish

1180
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,540
has to go through a chemical process

1181
00:47:38,210 --> 00:47:35,520
called osmo regulation where it has to

1182
00:47:40,690 --> 00:47:38,220
adjust the chemicals in its body to

1183
00:47:43,130 --> 00:47:40,700
adjust from salt water to fresh water

1184
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:43,140
the salt content in the body and things

1185
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:45,660
like that other types of species however

1186
00:47:50,210 --> 00:47:48,720
like mammals that don't uh you know that

1187
00:47:51,950 --> 00:47:50,220
that are air breathers they don't have

1188
00:47:53,450 --> 00:47:51,960
to go through that process at all you

1189
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:53,460
know they can go from salt water to

1190
00:47:58,490 --> 00:47:56,400
fresh water I just mentioned seals there

1191
00:48:00,109 --> 00:47:58,500
are also documented examples of whales

1192
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:00,119
that have come into fresh water in

1193
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:01,680
different rivers and lakes around the

1194
00:48:04,730 --> 00:48:02,400
world

1195
00:48:07,730 --> 00:48:04,740
and in fact there are

1196
00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:07,740
um species of freshwater cetaceans or

1197
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:10,500
dolphins in China and South America and

1198
00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:12,900
so forth so it kind of opens the

1199
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:15,000
possibilities up I think if you if you

1200
00:48:19,549 --> 00:48:16,319
rule out

1201
00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:19,559
kind of the the old archetype of Nessie

1202
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:22,260
being you know either a big fish like an

1203
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:24,960
eel or something like that or even a

1204
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:27,359
reptile and you know maybe expand it

1205
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,000
into the possibilities of a you know of

1206
00:48:34,730 --> 00:48:32,640
a mammal which is kind of you know where

1207
00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:34,740
I where I personally lean in terms of

1208
00:48:39,410 --> 00:48:36,359
what I think the Loch Ness monster

1209
00:48:41,870 --> 00:48:39,420
represents interesting okay well now

1210
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:41,880
we're talking mammal versus mammal let's

1211
00:48:46,609 --> 00:48:44,760
move on to Bigfoot okay a lot of what

1212
00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:46,619
your research has been

1213
00:48:50,990 --> 00:48:49,020
um you've looked into you've been on so

1214
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:51,000
many television shows talking about this

1215
00:48:55,069 --> 00:48:52,440
Cryptid

1216
00:48:57,170 --> 00:48:55,079
um and I I heard things today that I had

1217
00:48:59,150 --> 00:48:57,180
no idea about you know the history of

1218
00:49:01,069 --> 00:48:59,160
Bigfoot and what it could be what it

1219
00:49:02,809 --> 00:49:01,079
couldn't be so yeah what is some of the

1220
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:02,819
compelling evidence you come across in

1221
00:49:08,089 --> 00:49:06,480
terms of uh Bigfoot um yeah yeah okay

1222
00:49:11,089 --> 00:49:08,099
well first and foremost I would say

1223
00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:11,099
again the the anecdotal evidence which

1224
00:49:16,569 --> 00:49:13,640
consists of Legends and traditions of

1225
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,579
giant hair covered wild men

1226
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:18,720
uh is that's what they used to call them

1227
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,520
before the name Bigfoot was created we

1228
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:23,040
used to call them wild men uh different

1229
00:49:30,049 --> 00:49:26,400
Native American names for Bigfoot

1230
00:49:34,670 --> 00:49:30,059
Sasquatch uh all translate to either

1231
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:34,680
Bushman Harry man or Wild Man uh but

1232
00:49:38,030 --> 00:49:35,760
these disparate native American

1233
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:38,040
traditions talk about something that

1234
00:49:41,690 --> 00:49:39,900
sounds just like a Bigfoot and then

1235
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:41,700
again worldwide you have things like the

1236
00:49:47,089 --> 00:49:44,640
yeti in in Asia the yearen the Monday

1237
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:47,099
barong the yaoi so it seems to be a

1238
00:49:51,770 --> 00:49:49,680
worldwide phenomenon but if we narrow

1239
00:49:53,930 --> 00:49:51,780
the scope to just bigfooter Sasquatch in

1240
00:49:57,410 --> 00:49:53,940
North America you have very consistent

1241
00:49:59,390 --> 00:49:57,420
eyewitness descriptions uh these are

1242
00:50:01,069 --> 00:49:59,400
they seem to be hominins which means

1243
00:50:02,809 --> 00:50:01,079
they're very human-like in terms of

1244
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,819
their general form but of course they're

1245
00:50:06,770 --> 00:50:04,559
covered in hair so they would be

1246
00:50:08,569 --> 00:50:06,780
primitive hominins with primitive

1247
00:50:10,970 --> 00:50:08,579
features

1248
00:50:14,170 --> 00:50:10,980
um almost every eyewitness describes

1249
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:14,180
very powerfully built robust

1250
00:50:20,329 --> 00:50:17,460
creatures with you know kind of a pointy

1251
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,339
conical shaped head which we can find in

1252
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:22,319
the fossil record of hominins that's a

1253
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:25,760
common feature broad shoulders no neck

1254
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,319
but no in fact these animals probably do

1255
00:50:32,089 --> 00:50:30,240
have a neck it's just their trapezius

1256
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:32,099
muscles are so powerful and their

1257
00:50:36,049 --> 00:50:34,500
shoulders so powerful that it looks like

1258
00:50:39,069 --> 00:50:36,059
the head is set right on top of the

1259
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:39,079
shoulders but but very broad shoulders

1260
00:50:42,410 --> 00:50:41,220
uh you know I didn't really talk about

1261
00:50:44,270 --> 00:50:42,420
this during the lecture but there's

1262
00:50:48,109 --> 00:50:44,280
something called an intermembral index

1263
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:48,119
which in hominins great apes is kind of

1264
00:50:54,650 --> 00:50:52,559
the ratio of the arms versus the legs so

1265
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,660
for example in great apes like gorillas

1266
00:51:00,109 --> 00:50:57,119
and orangutans and chimpanzees which are

1267
00:51:02,510 --> 00:51:00,119
brachiators and they live in trees and

1268
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:02,520
climate they have much longer arms in

1269
00:51:06,650 --> 00:51:04,380
comparison to their legs the

1270
00:51:08,089 --> 00:51:06,660
intermembral index is about 67 or

1271
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:08,099
somewhere around there

1272
00:51:12,349 --> 00:51:09,839
humans have an intramembral index of

1273
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:12,359
about in the low 100s which means that

1274
00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:15,300
our legs are pretty long compared to our

1275
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,700
arms because we walk upright and

1276
00:51:22,910 --> 00:51:19,680
Sasquatch seems to have an intramemporal

1277
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,920
index that's exactly halfway between so

1278
00:51:26,809 --> 00:51:24,720
they do have longer arms compared to

1279
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:26,819
humans but they walk upright they're

1280
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:29,220
bipedal and so they you know they have

1281
00:51:32,809 --> 00:51:30,900
longer legs than something like a

1282
00:51:34,569 --> 00:51:32,819
gorilla or an orangutan or whatever so

1283
00:51:37,250 --> 00:51:34,579
those things are all pretty consistent

1284
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:37,260
also with bigfooter Sasquatch we have

1285
00:51:42,589 --> 00:51:40,319
the uh footprint evidence the physical

1286
00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:42,599
trace evidence which consists of

1287
00:51:48,530 --> 00:51:45,960
hundreds of castings and photographs of

1288
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:48,540
impressions in the ground those are very

1289
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,640
consistent there's a seems to be a

1290
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,280
consistent design or morphology to the

1291
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:55,920
Sasquatch foot it's similar to a human

1292
00:52:00,770 --> 00:51:57,839
foot but not exactly because they're

1293
00:52:03,549 --> 00:52:00,780
much heavier and bigger and so it's a

1294
00:52:05,930 --> 00:52:03,559
flatter foot with it's much wider

1295
00:52:08,210 --> 00:52:05,940
smaller toes in relation to the rest of

1296
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,220
the foot no Arch things like that

1297
00:52:13,730 --> 00:52:10,800
there's a lot of mid foot flexibility

1298
00:52:14,569 --> 00:52:13,740
they seem to it's called the mid-tarsal

1299
00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:14,579
break

1300
00:52:17,870 --> 00:52:16,680
so that's very compelling and also we

1301
00:52:20,270 --> 00:52:17,880
have you know I didn't really get into

1302
00:52:21,710 --> 00:52:20,280
this in the lecture but we have uh you

1303
00:52:23,569 --> 00:52:21,720
know some hair samples that are

1304
00:52:27,410 --> 00:52:23,579
intriguing

1305
00:52:29,089 --> 00:52:27,420
um no definitive DNA evidence so far

1306
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:29,099
um and that's a misconception that we

1307
00:52:32,930 --> 00:52:32,160
have DN DNA that we don't

1308
00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:32,940
um

1309
00:52:36,589 --> 00:52:34,980
and vocalizations and of course the

1310
00:52:38,930 --> 00:52:36,599
Patterson gimmon film which everyone has

1311
00:52:41,809 --> 00:52:38,940
seen which is the iconic footage from

1312
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:41,819
October 20th 1967. of course a lot of

1313
00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:44,640
people think it's a hoax but uh you know

1314
00:52:48,410 --> 00:52:46,440
those of us that have studied the film

1315
00:52:50,290 --> 00:52:48,420
for decades and especially now that

1316
00:52:53,630 --> 00:52:50,300
we've got this great software for

1317
00:52:54,829 --> 00:52:53,640
stabilizing enhancing enlarging you know

1318
00:52:57,049 --> 00:52:54,839
because we got to remember it came from

1319
00:53:00,109 --> 00:52:57,059
like an eight millimeter film that was

1320
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:00,119
basically uh very far away and kind of

1321
00:53:04,670 --> 00:53:02,640
shaky and stuff but um

1322
00:53:05,870 --> 00:53:04,680
I don't know I I you know I I still

1323
00:53:07,970 --> 00:53:05,880
think that that film is pretty

1324
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:07,980
convincing in terms of if you really

1325
00:53:12,410 --> 00:53:10,319
look at the movement of the subject in

1326
00:53:14,809 --> 00:53:12,420
the film you can see the muscle mass is

1327
00:53:17,150 --> 00:53:14,819
very natural it just doesn't seem like a

1328
00:53:18,829 --> 00:53:17,160
guy in a suit you know that's I think

1329
00:53:20,690 --> 00:53:18,839
that's where most serious Bigfoot

1330
00:53:22,490 --> 00:53:20,700
researchers uh kind of fall so

1331
00:53:25,549 --> 00:53:22,500
especially since it's supposedly

1332
00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:25,559
supposed to be a female yeah yeah uh we

1333
00:53:29,809 --> 00:53:27,839
call her patty patty yeah Roger

1334
00:53:31,790 --> 00:53:29,819
Patterson filmed it and somebody coined

1335
00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:31,800
the name Pat actually was a some Russian

1336
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:33,900
researchers I believe Dimitri bayanov

1337
00:53:39,049 --> 00:53:36,240
that came up with the name Patty but we

1338
00:53:40,609 --> 00:53:39,059
can see large pendulous breasts that you

1339
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:40,619
know especially when she turns in frame

1340
00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:42,119
352

1341
00:53:46,250 --> 00:53:44,220
and we can see these large breasts so we

1342
00:53:48,109 --> 00:53:46,260
assume it's a female and gosh wouldn't

1343
00:53:49,730 --> 00:53:48,119
that be hard to fake on a costume I

1344
00:53:53,930 --> 00:53:49,740
think I mean especially back in the

1345
00:53:56,569 --> 00:53:53,940
1960s why add that specific detail so

1346
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,579
well and also you know to the to the

1347
00:54:02,930 --> 00:53:59,040
film's credit we have the technology now

1348
00:54:06,349 --> 00:54:02,940
to stabilize to enhance and you can see

1349
00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:06,359
like the muscle ligature and stuff in

1350
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:08,339
this thing it's really hard to believe

1351
00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:11,280
that this could be a costume so the fact

1352
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:14,099
that the film still stands the test of

1353
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:15,599
time and the technology we have today

1354
00:54:20,089 --> 00:54:18,240
does say a lot you know at least in my

1355
00:54:22,490 --> 00:54:20,099
opinion it's never been adequately

1356
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:22,500
recreated Ryan and there's actually a

1357
00:54:26,030 --> 00:54:24,480
debate going on or a conversation I

1358
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:26,040
should say in the big foot field right

1359
00:54:30,730 --> 00:54:27,839
now about you know why don't we try to

1360
00:54:33,049 --> 00:54:30,740
do a really good Recreation using

1361
00:54:36,170 --> 00:54:33,059
materials that were only available in

1362
00:54:38,210 --> 00:54:36,180
1967 to make a costume we know the

1363
00:54:40,010 --> 00:54:38,220
location of the film it's been relocated

1364
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:40,020
thanks to the Bluff Creek project in

1365
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:41,880
California I visited the film site last

1366
00:54:47,630 --> 00:54:45,540
year are a researcher named Daniel Perez

1367
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,640
editor of the Bigfoot times has acquired

1368
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:49,920
the exact camera Patterson had at that

1369
00:54:53,390 --> 00:54:51,839
time of course we can't find the

1370
00:54:55,970 --> 00:54:53,400
original film that would be impossible

1371
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:55,980
so we would have to simulate some of the

1372
00:54:59,809 --> 00:54:58,319
the qualities of that type of film and

1373
00:55:01,490 --> 00:54:59,819
stuff but

1374
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,500
um but you know there have been some

1375
00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:03,599
crude attempts at recreating it and they

1376
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:06,480
just look awful like nothing like it and

1377
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:08,400
I think that's where yeah again more

1378
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:09,839
evidence for bigfoot researchers that

1379
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:11,040
have seen some of these attempted

1380
00:55:14,750 --> 00:55:12,359
Recreations are like God that's

1381
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:14,760
immediately recognizable as a guy in a

1382
00:55:19,549 --> 00:55:16,020
suit there's absolutely no question

1383
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,559
about it so I don't know what you think

1384
00:55:23,390 --> 00:55:21,839
it's a great mystery yeah it remains a

1385
00:55:26,990 --> 00:55:23,400
mystery uh two more questions for you

1386
00:55:28,329 --> 00:55:27,000
Ken if you don't mind um so uh the first

1387
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:28,339
being

1388
00:55:33,289 --> 00:55:31,440
you have done some investigation in

1389
00:55:35,809 --> 00:55:33,299
Alaska like somewhere we don't hear

1390
00:55:38,270 --> 00:55:35,819
about a lot when it comes to this stuff

1391
00:55:39,950 --> 00:55:38,280
um and you had almost a life-threatening

1392
00:55:41,690 --> 00:55:39,960
incident

1393
00:55:44,270 --> 00:55:41,700
um would you mind sharing if it's not

1394
00:55:45,770 --> 00:55:44,280
too traumatic no that's not it's not

1395
00:55:47,809 --> 00:55:45,780
it's actually more embarrassing than

1396
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:47,819
traumatic but uh yeah I did host a

1397
00:55:51,890 --> 00:55:49,500
co-hosted a series called missing in

1398
00:55:54,109 --> 00:55:51,900
Alaska in 2015 for the History Channel

1399
00:55:56,089 --> 00:55:54,119
and we were up there you know it's true

1400
00:55:59,329 --> 00:55:56,099
Alaska does have a just a remarkable

1401
00:56:02,030 --> 00:55:59,339
number of missing person you know

1402
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:02,040
something like 50 000 missing person

1403
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:04,559
cases since the 1980s some of those have

1404
00:56:08,569 --> 00:56:06,000
been resolved through the years

1405
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:08,579
but uh the I forget the percentage it's

1406
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:10,740
been years but yeah a startling number

1407
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:12,240
of people go missing in the state of

1408
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:14,760
Alaska and for the purposes of the show

1409
00:56:19,309 --> 00:56:16,640
we were kind of entertaining different

1410
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:19,319
you know theories about strange

1411
00:56:24,829 --> 00:56:22,740
creatures like Bigfoot or lake monsters

1412
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:24,839
Thunderbirds I mean could some of some

1413
00:56:28,849 --> 00:56:26,760
of some people at least be disappearing

1414
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:28,859
because of this or that

1415
00:56:31,329 --> 00:56:29,520
um

1416
00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:31,339
we were filming one particular episode

1417
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:34,920
and uh basically I was crossing a kind

1418
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:37,680
of an icy stream and I slipped on a icy

1419
00:56:43,010 --> 00:56:40,799
Mossy Rock and I broke my ankle snapped

1420
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:43,020
immediately and I fell into an icy

1421
00:56:49,130 --> 00:56:47,040
stream and uh too much to my chagrin the

1422
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,140
cameraman jumped right over and started

1423
00:56:54,109 --> 00:56:51,599
filming me as I was screaming like a

1424
00:56:55,250 --> 00:56:54,119
little girl in pain yeah because uh I

1425
00:56:57,230 --> 00:56:55,260
guess you know they knew it was going to

1426
00:56:59,870 --> 00:56:57,240
be gold footage or whatever but um

1427
00:57:02,210 --> 00:56:59,880
fortunately the team was there and they

1428
00:57:05,329 --> 00:57:02,220
you know made a splint for me out of

1429
00:57:07,730 --> 00:57:05,339
Driftwood and built a little uh gurney

1430
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,740
out of their jackets and I had to lay in

1431
00:57:11,390 --> 00:57:09,599
the Stream for a few minutes I thought I

1432
00:57:14,030 --> 00:57:11,400
might get hypothermia after a while but

1433
00:57:15,049 --> 00:57:14,040
but they rescued me off the uh off the

1434
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:15,059
mountain

1435
00:57:18,410 --> 00:57:16,559
and

1436
00:57:20,569 --> 00:57:18,420
um yeah so that it was kind of a bummer

1437
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:20,579
I felt really bad Ryan because I felt

1438
00:57:24,349 --> 00:57:22,140
you know like I just screwed the whole

1439
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,359
show you know you know you know so I was

1440
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,400
like man all these people I just sent

1441
00:57:30,109 --> 00:57:28,319
them all home

1442
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:30,119
um but yeah I would have gone missing in

1443
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:32,160
Alaska if I had been alone and I'm sure

1444
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:33,599
those kinds of things happen to people

1445
00:57:37,309 --> 00:57:35,460
as well

1446
00:57:39,230 --> 00:57:37,319
um but I am proud of the fact that I did

1447
00:57:41,390 --> 00:57:39,240
have surgery almost immediately in

1448
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:41,400
Anchorage I went through three months of

1449
00:57:46,010 --> 00:57:43,200
rigorous therapy and we were back

1450
00:57:47,329 --> 00:57:46,020
filming three months after that so and

1451
00:57:50,030 --> 00:57:47,339
we kind of picked and it was kind of

1452
00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:50,040
kind of funny because the uh that

1453
00:57:53,690 --> 00:57:52,140
particular episode we were talking about

1454
00:57:56,329 --> 00:57:53,700
the nahani which were supposed to be

1455
00:57:59,329 --> 00:57:56,339
evil spirits that are protecting

1456
00:58:01,010 --> 00:57:59,339
gold or some territory so we kind of you

1457
00:58:02,690 --> 00:58:01,020
know they The Producers wanted me to

1458
00:58:05,089 --> 00:58:02,700
kind of emphasize that storyline that

1459
00:58:07,730 --> 00:58:05,099
well maybe because we were doing a a

1460
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:07,740
episode about evil spirits that that's

1461
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:09,599
why this horrible thing happened to me

1462
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,680
which yeah yeah I mean you look at the

1463
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:15,599
curse of the skin walker yeah something

1464
00:58:19,309 --> 00:58:16,799
that goes on with that something

1465
00:58:21,710 --> 00:58:19,319
something along those lines so um yeah

1466
00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:21,720
but um ah well we're glad you made it

1467
00:58:25,010 --> 00:58:23,640
out well thank you yeah you didn't

1468
00:58:27,309 --> 00:58:25,020
become an active part of the

1469
00:58:29,569 --> 00:58:27,319
investigation

1470
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:29,579
I didn't and there are a lot of reasons

1471
00:58:33,170 --> 00:58:31,920
why people will you know I'm not just I

1472
00:58:35,089 --> 00:58:33,180
know there are a lot of theories out

1473
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,099
there and people are fascinated with

1474
00:58:39,650 --> 00:58:37,440
these books about you know missing

1475
00:58:42,289 --> 00:58:39,660
missing people in national parks and

1476
00:58:43,849 --> 00:58:42,299
things but um man there's a there's a

1477
00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:43,859
million ways to you know in the

1478
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,599
wilderness you know in particular as you

1479
00:58:50,030 --> 00:58:47,520
know I mean people have accidents they

1480
00:58:52,130 --> 00:58:50,040
fall in crevasses there's Bears there

1481
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:52,140
are you know it's pretty dangerous

1482
00:58:55,970 --> 00:58:53,760
sometimes and I think we you know we

1483
00:58:57,530 --> 00:58:55,980
maybe take that for granted in terms of

1484
00:58:59,329 --> 00:58:57,540
how dangerous it can be to go out into

1485
00:59:02,030 --> 00:58:59,339
the Wilderness sometimes absolutely

1486
00:59:03,710 --> 00:59:02,040
there's a lot of risks too for sure

1487
00:59:06,770 --> 00:59:03,720
um well you know last question for you

1488
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:06,780
okay we are a UFO podcast so I gotta go

1489
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:08,520
there man you did touch on this in your

1490
00:59:11,150 --> 00:59:09,359
talk

1491
00:59:14,089 --> 00:59:11,160
um I've come across reports in the

1492
00:59:16,490 --> 00:59:14,099
Project Blue Book files of um you know

1493
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:16,500
this correlation between people seeing a

1494
00:59:22,010 --> 00:59:19,200
Cryptid and seeing a UFO right you have

1495
00:59:24,349 --> 00:59:22,020
other researchers out there theorizing

1496
00:59:26,510 --> 00:59:24,359
Bigfoot could be a ghost Bigfoot could

1497
00:59:29,390 --> 00:59:26,520
be an alien you know I I don't land

1498
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:29,400
anywhere on that I I think all theories

1499
00:59:33,289 --> 00:59:31,140
should be asked

1500
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,299
um but what do you think of this

1501
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,280
correlation that people have made um

1502
00:59:39,710 --> 00:59:37,200
have you ever come across cases where

1503
00:59:42,170 --> 00:59:39,720
UFOs have been seen in conjunction with

1504
00:59:43,970 --> 00:59:42,180
Bigfoot um yeah what do you make of that

1505
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:43,980
whole debate it's pretty controversial

1506
00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:46,440
it is and uh you know I I know people

1507
00:59:51,230 --> 00:59:48,420
that that Advocate strongly for that

1508
00:59:52,130 --> 00:59:51,240
possibility uh look I'll tell you a

1509
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:52,140
personal story that's kind of

1510
00:59:56,690 --> 00:59:54,480
interesting I I did see a UFO one time

1511
00:59:58,609 --> 00:59:56,700
and I was on a Bigfoot research

1512
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:58,619
Expedition so maybe this sounds a little

1513
01:00:04,069 --> 00:59:59,880
hypocritical

1514
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,079
Charles Mill Lake which is just outside

1515
01:00:08,569 --> 01:00:06,559
of Mansfield Ohio about 20 years ago

1516
01:00:11,630 --> 01:00:08,579
specifically because there had been

1517
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:11,640
sightings of Bigfoot at this lake and a

1518
01:00:15,049 --> 01:00:12,960
colleague and I were kind of sitting

1519
01:00:16,670 --> 01:00:15,059
there at night and suddenly

1520
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,680
you know just kind of listening and

1521
01:00:20,930 --> 01:00:18,960
waiting and suddenly one of these I what

1522
01:00:23,329 --> 01:00:20,940
you guys refer to as the black triangles

1523
01:00:24,829 --> 01:00:23,339
these giant black triangular thing and

1524
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,839
we've been watching airplanes all night

1525
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,640
flying overhead and you know you you

1526
01:00:30,289 --> 01:00:28,559
recognize the flashing lights you hear

1527
01:00:31,970 --> 01:00:30,299
the engine noise you know you can

1528
01:00:34,970 --> 01:00:31,980
identify an airplane this thing was

1529
01:00:36,589 --> 01:00:34,980
completely silent it was huge I mean we

1530
01:00:38,750 --> 01:00:36,599
could tell it was it was hard to tell

1531
01:00:40,490 --> 01:00:38,760
how high up it was but it was a black

1532
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:40,500
triangular shape that kind of blacked

1533
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:42,720
out the the stars and there were three

1534
01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:45,599
flashing lights on each point of the

1535
01:00:49,010 --> 01:00:47,160
triangle that were different colors and

1536
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,020
ours like red green and I didn't have

1537
01:00:53,089 --> 01:00:51,359
Ryan the right photographic equipment to

1538
01:00:54,650 --> 01:00:53,099
photograph something in the sky I wasn't

1539
01:00:57,130 --> 01:00:54,660
expecting that I tried to get a picture

1540
01:01:00,770 --> 01:00:57,140
of it I couldn't pass through our heads

1541
01:01:02,990 --> 01:01:00,780
and uh so yeah so I saw a you know a UFO

1542
01:01:05,450 --> 01:01:03,000
now I acknowledged maybe it was the

1543
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:05,460
military experiment or you know I don't

1544
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:07,200
I can't say it was extraterrestrial I

1545
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:09,599
couldn't identify it I did find out

1546
01:01:13,490 --> 01:01:11,280
later there was a famous case near

1547
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:13,500
Mansfield Ohio where a helicopter was

1548
01:01:18,349 --> 01:01:16,079
captured in a tractor beam by a UFO

1549
01:01:20,990 --> 01:01:18,359
allegedly and I know there are a lot of

1550
01:01:22,910 --> 01:01:21,000
bases up there so anyway so that is my

1551
01:01:24,170 --> 01:01:22,920
but you know not to say and you know

1552
01:01:25,730 --> 01:01:24,180
certainly somebody that had that

1553
01:01:27,049 --> 01:01:25,740
confirmation bias would say well see you

1554
01:01:29,150 --> 01:01:27,059
were there looking for bigfoot and you

1555
01:01:31,370 --> 01:01:29,160
saw UFO well you know let's think about

1556
01:01:32,870 --> 01:01:31,380
this critically okay

1557
01:01:35,289 --> 01:01:32,880
when you're out in the woods or you're

1558
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:35,299
out in a desolate place at night

1559
01:01:39,890 --> 01:01:37,680
listening watching

1560
01:01:41,569 --> 01:01:39,900
you're more likely to see unusual things

1561
01:01:43,130 --> 01:01:41,579
I think you know because you're really

1562
01:01:45,289 --> 01:01:43,140
paying attention you're looking around

1563
01:01:47,630 --> 01:01:45,299
you're trying to take everything in

1564
01:01:49,730 --> 01:01:47,640
and so maybe that that played a part in

1565
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,740
that but uh I know that was a digression

1566
01:01:54,289 --> 01:01:51,119
so I'll go back to

1567
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:54,299
in my personal experience 45 years of

1568
01:01:58,970 --> 01:01:57,200
Bigfoot research all over North America

1569
01:02:00,529 --> 01:01:58,980
I've interviewed hundreds of

1570
01:02:02,210 --> 01:02:00,539
eyewitnesses I've done field research

1571
01:02:04,910 --> 01:02:02,220
all over the continent

1572
01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:04,920
I've worked with all the the main

1573
01:02:09,289 --> 01:02:07,140
investigators out there there's very

1574
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:09,299
little evidence that I've encountered

1575
01:02:14,089 --> 01:02:11,280
and it I think we figured out it's

1576
01:02:16,609 --> 01:02:14,099
probably about three percent of Bigfoot

1577
01:02:19,609 --> 01:02:16,619
encounters that hint at some kind of

1578
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,619
possible UFO connection which I think

1579
01:02:23,390 --> 01:02:21,359
scientifically speaking is a very small

1580
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:23,400
percentage of the the overall evidence

1581
01:02:29,329 --> 01:02:26,880
so I think you know people that

1582
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:29,339
sort of advocate the Bigfoot UFO

1583
01:02:35,150 --> 01:02:32,640
connection May tend to emphasize those

1584
01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:35,160
cases but I think if you take the wide

1585
01:02:39,770 --> 01:02:37,920
angle view it's not enough at least in

1586
01:02:42,170 --> 01:02:39,780
my opinion to really indicate there

1587
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:42,180
could be a connection but I will also

1588
01:02:46,609 --> 01:02:44,160
say this which is a kind of an

1589
01:02:48,529 --> 01:02:46,619
interesting Theory that's come up

1590
01:02:51,470 --> 01:02:48,539
I don't know a lot about UFO Abduction

1591
01:02:55,010 --> 01:02:51,480
per se but I know that that's a you know

1592
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:55,020
a theory that UFOs are abducting people

1593
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:57,119
might they also be abducting bigfoots

1594
01:03:02,270 --> 01:02:59,760
from time to time because bigfoots are

1595
01:03:04,670 --> 01:03:02,280
hominins supposedly they look somewhat

1596
01:03:05,690 --> 01:03:04,680
like us they walk upright and so I don't

1597
01:03:07,730 --> 01:03:05,700
know what are your thoughts on that Ryan

1598
01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:07,740
is it possible that maybe when people

1599
01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:10,380
see a Bigfoot and a UFO in the same

1600
01:03:14,569 --> 01:03:12,900
scenario it's because that Bigfoot or

1601
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,579
Sasquatch was just

1602
01:03:19,250 --> 01:03:16,559
take it off of a UFO I don't know man

1603
01:03:21,650 --> 01:03:19,260
that sounds crazy but I mean I love your

1604
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:21,660
turning the tables on me all right let's

1605
01:03:26,270 --> 01:03:23,700
let's let's let's go let's break this

1606
01:03:29,529 --> 01:03:26,280
down so I always turn to there's this

1607
01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:29,539
one case out of the Chestnut Ridge

1608
01:03:35,390 --> 01:03:32,640
I believe it was two women uh we're

1609
01:03:38,210 --> 01:03:35,400
driving down a desolate Road and

1610
01:03:40,430 --> 01:03:38,220
um they witnessed a hominid creature on

1611
01:03:42,170 --> 01:03:40,440
standing upright run across the road

1612
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:42,180
Harry

1613
01:03:46,130 --> 01:03:44,760
um run from they almost hit me they

1614
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,140
almost hit it so you know they kind of

1615
01:03:51,650 --> 01:03:48,480
screeching hole the creature runs into

1616
01:03:54,829 --> 01:03:51,660
the the woods and what happens they see

1617
01:03:56,690 --> 01:03:54,839
a craft above them go over to where this

1618
01:04:00,589 --> 01:03:56,700
creature had just entered the woods

1619
01:04:03,049 --> 01:04:00,599
being down and then they believe that it

1620
01:04:04,789 --> 01:04:03,059
brought up the creature oh wow okay it

1621
01:04:07,130 --> 01:04:04,799
disappeared on a sec again but like you

1622
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:07,140
mentioned that's one case and of course

1623
01:04:12,049 --> 01:04:10,079
it's gonna be highlighted because it was

1624
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:12,059
a UFO and a Bigfoot but like you said

1625
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:14,160
when you kind of take that uh you zoom

1626
01:04:17,329 --> 01:04:16,319
out and look at the percentage of these

1627
01:04:18,829 --> 01:04:17,339
things

1628
01:04:21,770 --> 01:04:18,839
um you have to wonder there's another

1629
01:04:25,130 --> 01:04:21,780
case in I believe it was Long Island

1630
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,140
where um this group of people saw a

1631
01:04:29,329 --> 01:04:27,119
creature that supposedly hopped on top

1632
01:04:31,849 --> 01:04:29,339
of their car dented the top of the car

1633
01:04:34,549 --> 01:04:31,859
there was physical evidence of this

1634
01:04:37,609 --> 01:04:34,559
um ran off again into the woods as they

1635
01:04:39,650 --> 01:04:37,619
always do and then they saw a UFO go

1636
01:04:41,569 --> 01:04:39,660
into the same exact area as well okay

1637
01:04:44,029 --> 01:04:41,579
Project Blue Book actually investigated

1638
01:04:46,130 --> 01:04:44,039
that case interesting um but again like

1639
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:46,140
you mentioned these are two cases out of

1640
01:04:50,510 --> 01:04:48,240
hundreds of thousands of Bigfoot reports

1641
01:04:53,150 --> 01:04:50,520
so you truly have to wonder are they

1642
01:04:54,289 --> 01:04:53,160
abducting like you said Bigfoot for some

1643
01:04:56,930 --> 01:04:54,299
reason

1644
01:05:00,289 --> 01:04:56,940
um is it because they know how rare it

1645
01:05:01,849 --> 01:05:00,299
is and they want to scientifically uh or

1646
01:05:03,650 --> 01:05:01,859
they want they want to see how they're

1647
01:05:05,809 --> 01:05:03,660
related to us if they are related to us

1648
01:05:07,490 --> 01:05:05,819
I've got a weird one for you and I don't

1649
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:07,500
remember the the exact reference maybe

1650
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:09,119
it's one of John keel's old books or

1651
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:12,240
something but uh there was a big or UFO

1652
01:05:17,930 --> 01:05:15,119
sighting uh in I believe Fredericton in

1653
01:05:19,309 --> 01:05:17,940
Wisconsin if I'm not mistaken where a

1654
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,319
truck driver was driving down the road

1655
01:05:23,870 --> 01:05:21,119
one morning early morning and there was

1656
01:05:25,609 --> 01:05:23,880
a craft kind of either parked in the

1657
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,619
road or you know and it was shroud kind

1658
01:05:29,329 --> 01:05:27,599
of mistrouded and he said there was a

1659
01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:29,339
little porthole or a window and he could

1660
01:05:34,430 --> 01:05:31,440
see the pilot and the pilot was a

1661
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:34,440
Bigfoot have you ever heard that so that

1662
01:05:38,809 --> 01:05:36,000
would be the most if you saw actually a

1663
01:05:40,549 --> 01:05:38,819
Bigfoot piloting UFO I think that would

1664
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,559
be a pretty definitive but again but

1665
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:42,240
these are outlier cases Ryan and that's

1666
01:05:46,010 --> 01:05:43,680
that's all I want to emphasize to people

1667
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:46,020
is yeah we all love the really weird

1668
01:05:50,210 --> 01:05:48,480
strange stories and particularly when

1669
01:05:52,910 --> 01:05:50,220
these Worlds Collide and we get these

1670
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:52,920
kind of seemingly you know dots

1671
01:05:57,470 --> 01:05:54,960
connected but um

1672
01:05:59,150 --> 01:05:57,480
yeah I I think it's just you know these

1673
01:06:00,770 --> 01:05:59,160
are outlier cases and so we shouldn't

1674
01:06:02,510 --> 01:06:00,780
really focus on them we should consider

1675
01:06:04,430 --> 01:06:02,520
them maybe and put them in our back

1676
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,440
pocket for later if something else comes

1677
01:06:08,930 --> 01:06:06,720
up but um you know these are all great

1678
01:06:10,430 --> 01:06:08,940
Mysteries you know absolutely and uh

1679
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:10,440
it's fun to kind of explore all the

1680
01:06:14,029 --> 01:06:11,760
different possibilities and just

1681
01:06:16,490 --> 01:06:14,039
speculate about it so it is it really is

1682
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,500
speculation I think is key and it keeps

1683
01:06:19,250 --> 01:06:18,240
us curious and it keeps the mystery

1684
01:06:21,230 --> 01:06:19,260
alive

1685
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:21,240
um and what is life without mystery you

1686
01:06:27,470 --> 01:06:24,720
know what I mean agreed well um to kind

1687
01:06:29,450 --> 01:06:27,480
of I guess wrap things up Ken uh where

1688
01:06:31,970 --> 01:06:29,460
do you stand I know you know after you

1689
01:06:35,150 --> 01:06:31,980
had this talk uh excuse me Loch Ness

1690
01:06:37,549 --> 01:06:35,160
versus Bigfoot um the room was kind of

1691
01:06:39,410 --> 01:06:37,559
you know passionately debating like

1692
01:06:41,450 --> 01:06:39,420
which is the most compelling the most

1693
01:06:43,789 --> 01:06:41,460
intriguing which could be real

1694
01:06:45,470 --> 01:06:43,799
um where do you land on either of these

1695
01:06:47,630 --> 01:06:45,480
two do you believe in one more than the

1696
01:06:49,490 --> 01:06:47,640
other to be a natural Flesh and Blood

1697
01:06:52,130 --> 01:06:49,500
thing man it's you know I guess it

1698
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,140
depends on the day honestly Ryan I'd say

1699
01:06:57,289 --> 01:06:54,480
I tell people I'm 90 convinced that

1700
01:06:58,730 --> 01:06:57,299
Bigfoot exist and this is after 45 years

1701
01:07:00,710 --> 01:06:58,740
of research

1702
01:07:02,510 --> 01:07:00,720
I think that the evidence is that

1703
01:07:04,490 --> 01:07:02,520
compelling but you know you have to

1704
01:07:06,829 --> 01:07:04,500
leave that 10 percent

1705
01:07:08,329 --> 01:07:06,839
you know margin of error because you

1706
01:07:10,250 --> 01:07:08,339
know it's possible that it's just a

1707
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:10,260
crazy cultural phenomenon I don't think

1708
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:12,000
that's the case it's very unlikely in my

1709
01:07:15,049 --> 01:07:13,440
opinion

1710
01:07:17,089 --> 01:07:15,059
um I'd say the evidence for the Loch

1711
01:07:19,490 --> 01:07:17,099
Ness monster and other Aquatic Cryptids

1712
01:07:22,370 --> 01:07:19,500
is right there with it so I you know I

1713
01:07:24,349 --> 01:07:22,380
kind of lean towards 90 as well I'd

1714
01:07:26,809 --> 01:07:24,359
almost flip a coin man I hate I hate to

1715
01:07:28,670 --> 01:07:26,819
I'm not trying to weasel out on you but

1716
01:07:30,970 --> 01:07:28,680
uh they're both they're both if you

1717
01:07:33,650 --> 01:07:30,980
really immerse yourself in the evidence

1718
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:33,660
uh you can you know become convinced

1719
01:07:37,970 --> 01:07:35,280
that you know these these things do

1720
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:37,980
exist they're very rare

1721
01:07:41,930 --> 01:07:40,319
um they they're very elusive uh in terms

1722
01:07:43,970 --> 01:07:41,940
of the Loch Ness monster obviously it

1723
01:07:46,549 --> 01:07:43,980
has the advantage of living in deep

1724
01:07:48,349 --> 01:07:46,559
water where it's not seen very often in

1725
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:48,359
terms of bigfooter Sasquatch I think

1726
01:07:53,390 --> 01:07:50,160
that they are extremely rare but they've

1727
01:07:55,849 --> 01:07:53,400
also adapted avoidance behaviors to not

1728
01:07:58,010 --> 01:07:55,859
be found by humans

1729
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:58,020
um and that they're just as some of my

1730
01:08:01,190 --> 01:07:59,520
colleagues call them the ninjas of the

1731
01:08:03,230 --> 01:08:01,200
forest they're good at hiding they're

1732
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:03,240
good at staying away from humans

1733
01:08:08,450 --> 01:08:06,420
and uh you know I'm just hopeful that uh

1734
01:08:10,609 --> 01:08:08,460
one day we will find definitive evidence

1735
01:08:13,609 --> 01:08:10,619
that one or both of these Cryptids

1736
01:08:16,849 --> 01:08:13,619
actually exist I hope so too man and you

1737
01:08:18,530 --> 01:08:16,859
know you mentioned um you know in terms

1738
01:08:21,229 --> 01:08:18,540
of documentation

1739
01:08:23,570 --> 01:08:21,239
um they are rare but you have uh

1740
01:08:25,610 --> 01:08:23,580
compiled a lot of these cases in the

1741
01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:25,620
essential gun to Loch Ness monster and a

1742
01:08:29,269 --> 01:08:27,600
central guy to Bigfoot um so I gotta ask

1743
01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:29,279
where can we find everything you're

1744
01:08:33,410 --> 01:08:31,679
doing and everything you're up to oh I

1745
01:08:35,209 --> 01:08:33,420
appreciate that um yeah all my books are

1746
01:08:37,490 --> 01:08:35,219
available on Amazon

1747
01:08:40,370 --> 01:08:37,500
and just type in Ken Gerhard and you

1748
01:08:42,289 --> 01:08:40,380
should go to my author page uh if any of

1749
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:42,299
your listeners would like autographed or

1750
01:08:46,130 --> 01:08:44,159
signed copies they can contact me on

1751
01:08:48,590 --> 01:08:46,140
social media Facebook Twitter Instagram

1752
01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:48,600
YouTube and I'm happy to to deal

1753
01:08:52,130 --> 01:08:50,339
directly with the with them as well

1754
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:52,140
awesome man well I appreciate your

1755
01:08:56,510 --> 01:08:54,960
openness um as someone who is going to

1756
01:09:01,329 --> 01:08:56,520
be moving to Scotland in the next time

1757
01:09:05,209 --> 01:09:03,649
like who else am I going to Turkey are

1758
01:09:07,610 --> 01:09:05,219
you gonna go to Loch Ness absolutely

1759
01:09:09,229 --> 01:09:07,620
okay I I hope so man you've got you've

1760
01:09:11,090 --> 01:09:09,239
got to you're gonna be the first to know

1761
01:09:13,010 --> 01:09:11,100
about it yeah and maybe maybe you'll see

1762
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:13,020
a UFO in the Loch Ness monster and

1763
01:09:16,729 --> 01:09:14,640
that'll open up a whole nother debate

1764
01:09:19,570 --> 01:09:16,739
when both of those are basically in view

1765
01:09:23,630 --> 01:09:22,010
Ken it has been a picture of me on

1766
01:09:27,490 --> 01:09:23,640
somewhere in the skies fan thank you

1767
01:09:33,530 --> 01:09:30,530
hey guys Ryan here the somewhere in the

1768
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,540
skies podcast is a labor of love every

1769
01:09:38,149 --> 01:09:35,520
week and with that comes many different

1770
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,159
costs to keep the show running that's

1771
01:09:42,530 --> 01:09:40,799
where our patreon campaign comes in you

1772
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:42,540
give what you think the show is worth

1773
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:45,359
there's different rewards available all

1774
01:09:49,309 --> 01:09:47,279
the time including shout outs on the

1775
01:09:52,370 --> 01:09:49,319
show early editions of main episodes

1776
01:09:55,070 --> 01:09:52,380
bonus episodes and content and very soon

1777
01:09:58,430 --> 01:09:55,080
monthly Patron Hangouts where we sit

1778
01:10:00,169 --> 01:09:58,440
back and chat all things UFOs so I hope

1779
01:10:02,750 --> 01:10:00,179
you'll consider becoming a patreon

1780
01:10:06,890 --> 01:10:02,760
subscriber today to learn more and to

1781
01:10:09,290 --> 01:10:06,900
join visit patreon.com summer Skies

1782
01:10:15,130 --> 01:10:09,300
thank you for your support and keep

1783
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:18,050
the Midwest conference on the unknown

1784
01:10:23,450 --> 01:10:21,840
day three it's been an absolute blast

1785
01:10:25,490 --> 01:10:23,460
seeing all the talks meeting all the

1786
01:10:27,530 --> 01:10:25,500
people here at the conference and um

1787
01:10:30,169 --> 01:10:27,540
it's been an incredible experience and

1788
01:10:33,169 --> 01:10:30,179
another incredible experience I had was

1789
01:10:35,209 --> 01:10:33,179
meeting for the very first time Joshua

1790
01:10:37,729 --> 01:10:35,219
kutchen a guy I've been following for a

1791
01:10:39,770 --> 01:10:37,739
really long time all of his work

1792
01:10:41,570 --> 01:10:39,780
um You probably heard his ad for his new

1793
01:10:44,209 --> 01:10:41,580
book that came out on the show last week

1794
01:10:46,669 --> 01:10:44,219
and um I got to see a talk that kind of

1795
01:10:49,850 --> 01:10:46,679
embodied what the book represents here

1796
01:10:52,430 --> 01:10:49,860
and it pretty much blew my mind that I'm

1797
01:10:55,310 --> 01:10:52,440
sure a lot of people's and had my head

1798
01:10:58,010 --> 01:10:55,320
tilted the whole time thinking wow there

1799
01:10:59,330 --> 01:10:58,020
might be something to this so um for the

1800
01:11:02,209 --> 01:10:59,340
very first time on somewhere in the

1801
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:02,219
skies welcome Mr Joshua kutchen hi Ryan

1802
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:04,080
it's it's a pleasure to I was gonna say

1803
01:11:07,070 --> 01:11:05,520
it's my first time meeting you too but I

1804
01:11:08,090 --> 01:11:07,080
guess that goes without saying right if

1805
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:08,100
it's

1806
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:09,600
um unless you know something I don't

1807
01:11:14,810 --> 01:11:11,520
know yeah I've been watching you from

1808
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:14,820
afar hiding behind Corners no no it's

1809
01:11:18,110 --> 01:11:16,320
it's been absolutely wonderful and it

1810
01:11:20,330 --> 01:11:18,120
was great I mean Mutual admiration hour

1811
01:11:21,050 --> 01:11:20,340
right I was I loved your your talk as

1812
01:11:23,209 --> 01:11:21,060
well

1813
01:11:24,890 --> 01:11:23,219
um and I think that I think that like

1814
01:11:26,510 --> 01:11:24,900
focusing on the human element of this

1815
01:11:28,189 --> 01:11:26,520
stuff is something that has been has

1816
01:11:30,530 --> 01:11:28,199
been neglected for so long and I've seen

1817
01:11:32,030 --> 01:11:30,540
more people coming around to that and I

1818
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,040
mean in some ways it ties in with a lot

1819
01:11:37,010 --> 01:11:35,040
of my Theses that we as

1820
01:11:38,810 --> 01:11:37,020
as inhabitants of this reality in this

1821
01:11:42,169 --> 01:11:38,820
planet are kind of behind the phenomenon

1822
01:11:43,610 --> 01:11:42,179
not not that we are you know not that

1823
01:11:46,669 --> 01:11:43,620
we're making it up and not that it's

1824
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:46,679
like all strictly aircraft from you know

1825
01:11:50,570 --> 01:11:48,000
authorities and government organizations

1826
01:11:52,669 --> 01:11:50,580
but that the phenomenon is intrinsically

1827
01:11:53,990 --> 01:11:52,679
tied to the Human Condition and so I

1828
01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:54,000
think in a lot of ways that the two

1829
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:55,440
presentations really played off of each

1830
01:12:02,209 --> 01:11:58,800
other good point yeah well tell us a

1831
01:12:06,169 --> 01:12:02,219
little I guess the Ecology of souls

1832
01:12:08,030 --> 01:12:06,179
College of souls the UFO as something I

1833
01:12:10,189 --> 01:12:08,040
never thought I would connect to UFOs as

1834
01:12:12,050 --> 01:12:10,199
a death symbol walk us through how did

1835
01:12:14,030 --> 01:12:12,060
this come to be what made you what were

1836
01:12:16,430 --> 01:12:14,040
the first seeds that came into your mind

1837
01:12:18,290 --> 01:12:16,440
about this this theory that you're sort

1838
01:12:20,090 --> 01:12:18,300
of bringing forward well yeah and I want

1839
01:12:21,950 --> 01:12:20,100
to make it very clear that it's always a

1840
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:21,960
theory right you know I mean

1841
01:12:26,270 --> 01:12:24,239
I uh I always try to make it a point to

1842
01:12:27,649 --> 01:12:26,280
say look it could be this and if it is

1843
01:12:28,910 --> 01:12:27,659
this here's the way this all fits

1844
01:12:31,010 --> 01:12:28,920
together but at the same time you know

1845
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:31,020
maybe I just wrote this giant book and

1846
01:12:34,189 --> 01:12:33,120
it's not right right but you know it's

1847
01:12:35,689 --> 01:12:34,199
about the journey and about learning

1848
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:35,699
some of the symbolism and things along

1849
01:12:40,370 --> 01:12:38,159
the way so two things always really

1850
01:12:42,169 --> 01:12:40,380
stuck with me um the first was the

1851
01:12:44,450 --> 01:12:42,179
observation from Ann strieber after

1852
01:12:46,910 --> 01:12:44,460
getting a lot of uh correspondence from

1853
01:12:48,770 --> 01:12:46,920
readers in the wake of communion

1854
01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:48,780
um had written down an observation about

1855
01:12:52,370 --> 01:12:50,880
the contact experience and she said this

1856
01:12:54,350 --> 01:12:52,380
has something to do with what we call

1857
01:12:56,930 --> 01:12:54,360
death now I think what we call death is

1858
01:12:58,250 --> 01:12:56,940
is a really interesting idea too didn't

1859
01:12:59,570 --> 01:12:58,260
have as much time to explore that

1860
01:13:02,090 --> 01:12:59,580
because just unpacking that one

1861
01:13:04,550 --> 01:13:02,100
statement and how it how the uh just

1862
01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:04,560
death in general reflects and refracts

1863
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:06,719
through the UFO phenomenon just ended up

1864
01:13:10,250 --> 01:13:09,120
leading me down innumerable rabbit holes

1865
01:13:12,470 --> 01:13:10,260
so that was something that always stuck

1866
01:13:14,930 --> 01:13:12,480
with me and then the fact that there are

1867
01:13:16,490 --> 01:13:14,940
plenty I wouldn't necessarily say it's a

1868
01:13:20,030 --> 01:13:16,500
majority of cases but there are plenty

1869
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:20,040
of cases where people see dead loved

1870
01:13:24,350 --> 01:13:22,800
ones during their during their contact

1871
01:13:26,330 --> 01:13:24,360
experiences either you know a board

1872
01:13:28,850 --> 01:13:26,340
craft or during periods of heavy UFO

1873
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:28,860
contact so they'll be citing UFOs and

1874
01:13:31,610 --> 01:13:30,600
they'll see their their dead father will

1875
01:13:32,750 --> 01:13:31,620
come to their front door or something

1876
01:13:34,910 --> 01:13:32,760
like that

1877
01:13:37,550 --> 01:13:34,920
so um I really want to unpack that but

1878
01:13:39,410 --> 01:13:37,560
what happened when I did that was that I

1879
01:13:41,570 --> 01:13:39,420
started finding all these older beliefs

1880
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:41,580
about the soul that a lot of us in

1881
01:13:44,990 --> 01:13:43,440
modern Western Society have just

1882
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,000
completely forgotten you know a big one

1883
01:13:48,770 --> 01:13:47,040
is the idea that I talk about in the

1884
01:13:50,270 --> 01:13:48,780
presentation the idea of poly psychism

1885
01:13:52,370 --> 01:13:50,280
the idea that there are multiple parts

1886
01:13:54,649 --> 01:13:52,380
to us that certainly have their own

1887
01:13:55,370 --> 01:13:54,659
degree of autonomy and might wander a

1888
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:55,380
will

1889
01:13:58,729 --> 01:13:57,600
so I was like okay well I guess this

1890
01:13:59,930 --> 01:13:58,739
book's a little bit bigger than I

1891
01:14:01,850 --> 01:13:59,940
thought it would be

1892
01:14:04,370 --> 01:14:01,860
so I ended up having to split it into

1893
01:14:06,110 --> 01:14:04,380
two because there were not only those

1894
01:14:07,550 --> 01:14:06,120
you know older soul-based Traditions

1895
01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:07,560
that I felt like needed to be provided

1896
01:14:10,250 --> 01:14:09,000
as background because otherwise you know

1897
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:10,260
you're talking about the UFO phenomenon

1898
01:14:13,850 --> 01:14:12,239
and you're having to digress and go off

1899
01:14:14,930 --> 01:14:13,860
on these tangents to explain it so I'm

1900
01:14:16,370 --> 01:14:14,940
like okay let's just bring everybody up

1901
01:14:19,550 --> 01:14:16,380
to speed on some of these older ideas

1902
01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:19,560
but then you know I just found all sorts

1903
01:14:24,169 --> 01:14:21,360
of other things that really compelled me

1904
01:14:25,850 --> 01:14:24,179
to continue expanding and connections to

1905
01:14:27,950 --> 01:14:25,860
Ley lines which have their own UFO

1906
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,960
connection but also their own Spirit

1907
01:14:31,070 --> 01:14:29,280
connection if you look at some of the

1908
01:14:33,649 --> 01:14:31,080
older Traditions that are outlined by

1909
01:14:36,410 --> 01:14:33,659
like Paul Devereaux and films like that

1910
01:14:38,570 --> 01:14:36,420
um and ancient monuments and and mounds

1911
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:38,580
and megaliths and things like that

1912
01:14:42,350 --> 01:14:40,860
um almost often rather have death

1913
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:42,360
connections as well

1914
01:14:45,229 --> 01:14:43,920
so it just turned into a bunch of

1915
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:45,239
different things and then of course

1916
01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:46,320
there's always the fairy connection

1917
01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:48,719
because I always keep finding myself uh

1918
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:50,400
coming back to those fairy connections

1919
01:14:57,410 --> 01:14:53,760
and uh so you guys this new term I'm

1920
01:14:59,930 --> 01:14:57,420
learning this week falians blew me away

1921
01:15:02,630 --> 01:14:59,940
I was like that needs to be on a t-shirt

1922
01:15:04,850 --> 01:15:02,640
today today Joshua country well you know

1923
01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:04,860
it's I kind of like it because

1924
01:15:08,510 --> 01:15:06,900
I always try to emphasize this because

1925
01:15:10,010 --> 01:15:08,520
people always I feel like often read

1926
01:15:11,450 --> 01:15:10,020
some of my work the wrong way they think

1927
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:11,460
that I'm saying that aliens are fairies

1928
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:13,199
or that fairies are aliens and I'm

1929
01:15:16,130 --> 01:15:14,640
saying neither I'm saying that the way

1930
01:15:18,830 --> 01:15:16,140
that we interpret the phenomenon is

1931
01:15:20,450 --> 01:15:18,840
always culturally bound right

1932
01:15:22,970 --> 01:15:20,460
um but the consistencies between the

1933
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:22,980
fairy folklore and the UFO contact

1934
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:24,239
experience

1935
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:27,000
is so strong that I I'm at the point now

1936
01:15:30,169 --> 01:15:28,560
you know I used to hedge my bets and be

1937
01:15:33,290 --> 01:15:30,179
like well maybe it's kind of similar but

1938
01:15:35,390 --> 01:15:33,300
like I if I can find something in one I

1939
01:15:37,310 --> 01:15:35,400
can almost always find an analog in the

1940
01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:37,320
other right but it's something that you

1941
01:15:40,669 --> 01:15:38,400
know I sort of alluded to in the talk

1942
01:15:42,410 --> 01:15:40,679
too is that this is kind of the the

1943
01:15:43,790 --> 01:15:42,420
connection that haunts passports and

1944
01:15:45,410 --> 01:15:43,800
Magonia in a way is that you know Valley

1945
01:15:47,570 --> 01:15:45,420
did a great job of showing how some of

1946
01:15:49,189 --> 01:15:47,580
these older folklores connect with alien

1947
01:15:50,510 --> 01:15:49,199
abduction Mythos but the the question

1948
01:15:52,130 --> 01:15:50,520
that sort of lingers in the background

1949
01:15:54,530 --> 01:15:52,140
that didn't really go answered was well

1950
01:15:55,970 --> 01:15:54,540
how did the older folklores think of

1951
01:15:58,189 --> 01:15:55,980
these

1952
01:16:00,950 --> 01:15:58,199
quote unquote non-human beings they

1953
01:16:02,810 --> 01:16:00,960
always almost always tied them into the

1954
01:16:04,970 --> 01:16:02,820
dead somehow can you see this in Western

1955
01:16:07,250 --> 01:16:04,980
fairy folklore where the dead will

1956
01:16:08,870 --> 01:16:07,260
appear alongside fairies or the dead

1957
01:16:10,669 --> 01:16:08,880
will even become fairies in some

1958
01:16:12,770 --> 01:16:10,679
instances and so trying to sort out

1959
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:12,780
exactly how that happens is another big

1960
01:16:16,610 --> 01:16:14,820
part of this but by the transitive

1961
01:16:18,290 --> 01:16:16,620
property it implies to me that there

1962
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:18,300
would be some link between aliens and

1963
01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:19,679
the dead if aliens are connected to

1964
01:16:23,590 --> 01:16:20,880
fairies and fairies are connected to

1965
01:16:27,649 --> 01:16:23,600
aliens right yeah so maybe again maybe

1966
01:16:30,590 --> 01:16:27,659
I'm glad you make that um disclaimer you

1967
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:30,600
know I wish more UFO researchers would

1968
01:16:35,810 --> 01:16:34,080
do that yeah instead of I know that I

1969
01:16:38,090 --> 01:16:35,820
know this to be true you know just as

1970
01:16:39,290 --> 01:16:38,100
well as I do any conference you go to if

1971
01:16:41,570 --> 01:16:39,300
there's someone up there talking and

1972
01:16:44,570 --> 01:16:41,580
they say they have the answers to UFOs

1973
01:16:46,070 --> 01:16:44,580
run away 100 100 and you know someone

1974
01:16:47,450 --> 01:16:46,080
who actually did the layout of the book

1975
01:16:48,830 --> 01:16:47,460
but is also a dear friend of mine and

1976
01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:48,840
like one of the nicest people I've ever

1977
01:16:52,910 --> 01:16:51,360
had the chance to meet Mike clelland has

1978
01:16:54,470 --> 01:16:52,920
always been a real Touchstone for me on

1979
01:16:56,930 --> 01:16:54,480
this because Mike's had some experiences

1980
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:56,940
that are quite harrowing and are quite

1981
01:17:01,310 --> 01:16:59,280
convincing and yet you read Mike's work

1982
01:17:03,709 --> 01:17:01,320
and he's always saying it might be it

1983
01:17:05,689 --> 01:17:03,719
seems to be perhaps so and so to me it

1984
01:17:06,950 --> 01:17:05,699
seems as if and I'm like well if Mike

1985
01:17:08,510 --> 01:17:06,960
can do that and he's had these

1986
01:17:10,490 --> 01:17:08,520
experiences with a certain degree of

1987
01:17:12,590 --> 01:17:10,500
Surety involved then the rest of us have

1988
01:17:13,850 --> 01:17:12,600
no excuse for not doing that right so so

1989
01:17:15,470 --> 01:17:13,860
there's one part in the there's one part

1990
01:17:16,910 --> 01:17:15,480
in Ecology of souls where I say okay

1991
01:17:18,890 --> 01:17:16,920
like I'm not going to say might be and

1992
01:17:20,570 --> 01:17:18,900
seems to be just to streamline this

1993
01:17:22,130 --> 01:17:20,580
conversation for this one section of a

1994
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:22,140
chapter this is not saying it's right

1995
01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:23,760
it's just trying to streamline the text

1996
01:17:26,510 --> 01:17:25,620
because it was sort of the part where I

1997
01:17:28,070 --> 01:17:26,520
drove together a bunch of different

1998
01:17:29,450 --> 01:17:28,080
threads and it was easier to say if this

1999
01:17:31,490 --> 01:17:29,460
is true then this is true then just say

2000
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:31,500
this is the way it is but that's it was

2001
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:32,880
couch in that sort of language so yeah

2002
01:17:36,590 --> 01:17:34,560
I'm always about

2003
01:17:38,570 --> 01:17:36,600
providing different ideas and it's the

2004
01:17:40,669 --> 01:17:38,580
sort of thing where you know even if

2005
01:17:42,290 --> 01:17:40,679
it's not quote unquote the objective

2006
01:17:44,930 --> 01:17:42,300
answer to this I still think it's

2007
01:17:47,510 --> 01:17:44,940
interesting to see how many different

2008
01:17:49,130 --> 01:17:47,520
models you can graft onto the UFO

2009
01:17:50,510 --> 01:17:49,140
phenomenon and it still makes sense and

2010
01:17:52,729 --> 01:17:50,520
I think that's sort of

2011
01:17:55,610 --> 01:17:52,739
anomalous in its own right you know what

2012
01:17:57,770 --> 01:17:55,620
I mean you know and I mean I want to

2013
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:57,780
kind of break down some of some of the

2014
01:18:02,330 --> 01:18:00,239
options you get in in your presentation

2015
01:18:04,010 --> 01:18:02,340
and in the book um you know obviously

2016
01:18:07,010 --> 01:18:04,020
not too much guys we want you to get the

2017
01:18:09,470 --> 01:18:07,020
book the books I should say

2018
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:09,480
um oh gosh I can't wait to dig into it

2019
01:18:14,209 --> 01:18:11,280
um but some of the things that really

2020
01:18:16,490 --> 01:18:14,219
stuck out to me were obviously a the

2021
01:18:20,570 --> 01:18:16,500
beans the entities the intelligences

2022
01:18:25,070 --> 01:18:20,580
possibly behind the UFOs uh the craft or

2023
01:18:27,890 --> 01:18:25,080
the uh the let's not even craft so much

2024
01:18:28,850 --> 01:18:27,900
but the maybe the vessel it's so it's

2025
01:18:29,810 --> 01:18:28,860
actually a really good way to put it

2026
01:18:32,689 --> 01:18:29,820
yeah

2027
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:32,699
um what about those symbologies did you

2028
01:18:36,470 --> 01:18:34,980
find interesting patterns between let's

2029
01:18:37,189 --> 01:18:36,480
start with the beans I guess a little

2030
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:37,199
bit

2031
01:18:41,330 --> 01:18:39,120
um in terms of like yeah yeah well in

2032
01:18:43,070 --> 01:18:41,340
some ways it's the most superficial

2033
01:18:45,229 --> 01:18:43,080
um comparison right because and

2034
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:45,239
basically you can sort of distill it to

2035
01:18:50,090 --> 01:18:48,719
the Grays are quite skeletal right and I

2036
01:18:51,530 --> 01:18:50,100
I think it you know I think they're you

2037
01:18:52,910 --> 01:18:51,540
and like three other people were the

2038
01:18:54,890 --> 01:18:52,920
people who laughed at the Roswell slide

2039
01:18:56,510 --> 01:18:54,900
yeah then I threw up there but you know

2040
01:18:58,130 --> 01:18:56,520
I was I was but but I think it does

2041
01:19:01,310 --> 01:18:58,140
emphasize the point that like the gray

2042
01:19:04,070 --> 01:19:01,320
alien is so skeletal that like when when

2043
01:19:05,870 --> 01:19:04,080
people when you researchers see a

2044
01:19:07,370 --> 01:19:05,880
mummified indigenous boy they say oh it

2045
01:19:08,930 --> 01:19:07,380
looks like a gray alien and that sort of

2046
01:19:10,669 --> 01:19:08,940
shows you how the proportions are

2047
01:19:12,649 --> 01:19:10,679
basically the same the proportions can

2048
01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:12,659
change an atrophy after death in certain

2049
01:19:16,850 --> 01:19:15,600
ways that are very evocative of that so

2050
01:19:19,010 --> 01:19:16,860
um and you know other folks like Martin

2051
01:19:20,570 --> 01:19:19,020
cottmeyer I have pointed these these

2052
01:19:22,310 --> 01:19:20,580
connections out so there's that um

2053
01:19:24,590 --> 01:19:22,320
there's also the qualities which we

2054
01:19:26,209 --> 01:19:24,600
attribute these occupants which you know

2055
01:19:27,890 --> 01:19:26,219
we're the same Suite of qualities that

2056
01:19:29,330 --> 01:19:27,900
you would attribute to fairies or or

2057
01:19:30,590 --> 01:19:29,340
ghosts or even if you're into paranormal

2058
01:19:32,689 --> 01:19:30,600
Bigfoot probably the same qualities

2059
01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:32,699
you'd attribute to that invisibility

2060
01:19:36,169 --> 01:19:34,560
phasing through objects all these sort

2061
01:19:37,550 --> 01:19:36,179
of different things but I also found it

2062
01:19:39,649 --> 01:19:37,560
really interesting that a lot of the the

2063
01:19:41,330 --> 01:19:39,659
non-grays that you see you know they're

2064
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:41,340
not quote unquote space Brothers

2065
01:19:45,350 --> 01:19:43,679
generally speaking or they're not Grays

2066
01:19:46,910 --> 01:19:45,360
um they're usually Therian thropes of

2067
01:19:49,490 --> 01:19:46,920
Earth animals right and it's like well

2068
01:19:51,350 --> 01:19:49,500
okay why why are these Earth animals and

2069
01:19:52,550 --> 01:19:51,360
if you impact some of them behind some

2070
01:19:54,649 --> 01:19:52,560
of those you find some interesting

2071
01:19:56,570 --> 01:19:54,659
connections between those particular

2072
01:19:58,370 --> 01:19:56,580
animals and a lot of our Traditions

2073
01:20:00,050 --> 01:19:58,380
worldwide regarding the dead and a lot

2074
01:20:02,149 --> 01:20:00,060
of these Traditions are quite consistent

2075
01:20:03,890 --> 01:20:02,159
in terms of the figures and the animals

2076
01:20:06,590 --> 01:20:03,900
that might lead you um to the afterlife

2077
01:20:08,149 --> 01:20:06,600
for example dogs birds and horses are

2078
01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:08,159
always the three animals that lead you

2079
01:20:12,290 --> 01:20:10,260
and help you make that transition so

2080
01:20:14,510 --> 01:20:12,300
that's sort of a very rough and very

2081
01:20:16,490 --> 01:20:14,520
brief over sketch of sketch of the uh

2082
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:16,500
the sort of occupants but then you know

2083
01:20:18,709 --> 01:20:17,760
if you look at some of these cosmologies

2084
01:20:20,390 --> 01:20:18,719
and I alluded to this in the

2085
01:20:22,490 --> 01:20:20,400
presentation too

2086
01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:22,500
um a lot of indigenous cosmologies don't

2087
01:20:28,370 --> 01:20:25,199
differentiate between well first of all

2088
01:20:29,870 --> 01:20:28,380
they they tend to view UFO phenomenon as

2089
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:29,880
some sort of ancestor or Spirit

2090
01:20:34,070 --> 01:20:32,639
phenomena and when they do they might

2091
01:20:35,390 --> 01:20:34,080
see something that looks to our eyes

2092
01:20:37,129 --> 01:20:35,400
like a craft but they don't really

2093
01:20:39,830 --> 01:20:37,139
differentiate between occupants and

2094
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:39,840
craft and uh you know and and just light

2095
01:20:44,750 --> 01:20:42,480
in general so it's entirely possible as

2096
01:20:48,050 --> 01:20:44,760
in some work like rd6 clear Clarks to

2097
01:20:50,330 --> 01:20:48,060
see people converse with us you know a

2098
01:20:52,010 --> 01:20:50,340
star person a star ancestor that then

2099
01:20:54,110 --> 01:20:52,020
changes into a light that then changes

2100
01:20:55,669 --> 01:20:54,120
into a craft with with those you know

2101
01:20:58,010 --> 01:20:55,679
seamless transition

2102
01:20:59,450 --> 01:20:58,020
so there's that and then there's this

2103
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:59,460
very persistent belief that you find

2104
01:21:04,010 --> 01:21:01,440
that really can trace all its way

2105
01:21:05,810 --> 01:21:04,020
through I would argue Christianity and

2106
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:05,820
new age and ghost hunting that the soul

2107
01:21:10,010 --> 01:21:07,679
is is a ball of light

2108
01:21:11,209 --> 01:21:10,020
and you find that in a lot of near-death

2109
01:21:13,310 --> 01:21:11,219
experiences a lot of out of body

2110
01:21:14,870 --> 01:21:13,320
experiences somehow people are able to

2111
01:21:17,209 --> 01:21:14,880
have a third person ex third person

2112
01:21:19,129 --> 01:21:17,219
perspective of of their soul and they

2113
01:21:21,229 --> 01:21:19,139
sort of perceive it as being like a

2114
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:21,239
bowling ball sized ball of white

2115
01:21:25,070 --> 01:21:24,480
so I think that goes a way to

2116
01:21:27,050 --> 01:21:25,080
um

2117
01:21:28,490 --> 01:21:27,060
to sort of suggest that some of the

2118
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:28,500
straight up light phenomena in the

2119
01:21:33,649 --> 01:21:30,719
absence of structured craft might be

2120
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:33,659
some sort of Soul phenomena I mean in a

2121
01:21:38,450 --> 01:21:36,480
part of the the Jeffrey crybel was was

2122
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:38,460
kind enough to provide an endorsement of

2123
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:40,080
the book and towards the end of his

2124
01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:41,520
quote it's not on the back but it makes

2125
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:42,719
it in the longer quote because he gave

2126
01:21:45,770 --> 01:21:44,580
me a long quote he said you know if

2127
01:21:47,930 --> 01:21:45,780
you're if you're trying to shoot down

2128
01:21:49,669 --> 01:21:47,940
UFOs you might as well be trying to

2129
01:21:51,470 --> 01:21:49,679
shoot down Souls that was a really

2130
01:21:53,149 --> 01:21:51,480
interesting way to put it

2131
01:21:54,530 --> 01:21:53,159
um but even if they're Souls it doesn't

2132
01:21:55,850 --> 01:21:54,540
necessarily mean dead people and that's

2133
01:21:58,129 --> 01:21:55,860
the interesting thing where things like

2134
01:22:00,950 --> 01:21:58,139
polycycism come in because during

2135
01:22:02,689 --> 01:22:00,960
periods of trauma or illness or sleep or

2136
01:22:06,110 --> 01:22:02,699
Altered States Of Consciousness it's

2137
01:22:07,250 --> 01:22:06,120
believed worldwide that this aspect of

2138
01:22:09,649 --> 01:22:07,260
your soul has a certain degree of

2139
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:09,659
autonomy and can wander around it will

2140
01:22:14,090 --> 01:22:11,760
um and when it wanders around it will

2141
01:22:15,649 --> 01:22:14,100
it's often described as again a ball of

2142
01:22:17,930 --> 01:22:15,659
light

2143
01:22:19,729 --> 01:22:17,940
um so the idea that perhaps um

2144
01:22:21,470 --> 01:22:19,739
an aspect of the witness might be

2145
01:22:23,570 --> 01:22:21,480
projecting itself like a doppelganger

2146
01:22:25,790 --> 01:22:23,580
might or the idea that there might be

2147
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:25,800
someone who is doing something like

2148
01:22:28,610 --> 01:22:27,120
remote viewing or meditating and

2149
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:28,620
projecting their Consciousness and to

2150
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:30,239
those who are able to see it it appears

2151
01:22:33,169 --> 01:22:31,920
the ball of light are two things to be

2152
01:22:34,610 --> 01:22:33,179
explored and you can find these ideas

2153
01:22:35,870 --> 01:22:34,620
that's something that I really tried to

2154
01:22:36,950 --> 01:22:35,880
put in the presentation too is that

2155
01:22:38,510 --> 01:22:36,960
these ideas

2156
01:22:39,709 --> 01:22:38,520
especially in those old Flying Saucer

2157
01:22:41,030 --> 01:22:39,719
reviews which always leaned a little bit

2158
01:22:43,010 --> 01:22:41,040
more metaphysical than the new fun

2159
01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:43,020
Journal you can find these ideas as far

2160
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:45,120
back as like the 50s and then they've

2161
01:22:48,410 --> 01:22:46,560
been talked about but they've never

2162
01:22:49,729 --> 01:22:48,420
really gotten a moment to shine I think

2163
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:49,739
and then there's a whole other

2164
01:22:52,970 --> 01:22:50,880
conversation you could have about

2165
01:22:53,930 --> 01:22:52,980
structure craft and the symbolism behind

2166
01:22:55,550 --> 01:22:53,940
that

2167
01:22:58,129 --> 01:22:55,560
um and some of the stranger ideas which

2168
01:22:59,870 --> 01:22:58,139
I don't necessarily think are what's

2169
01:23:01,750 --> 01:22:59,880
going on because it doesn't really jive

2170
01:23:03,709 --> 01:23:01,760
with my metaphysics but I have to

2171
01:23:05,990 --> 01:23:03,719
acknowledge the fact that it's a

2172
01:23:07,610 --> 01:23:06,000
possibility is this idea of afterlife

2173
01:23:09,770 --> 01:23:07,620
technology the idea that the afterlife

2174
01:23:12,649 --> 01:23:09,780
is a mirror of our world

2175
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:12,659
and it can technologically advance

2176
01:23:17,689 --> 01:23:15,360
and perhaps people on the other side are

2177
01:23:20,030 --> 01:23:17,699
making these craft to pierce the veil

2178
01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:20,040
and it's a weird idea but it's

2179
01:23:24,110 --> 01:23:22,560
there's shockingly more of a discussion

2180
01:23:25,970 --> 01:23:24,120
around that than I think I even I

2181
01:23:27,350 --> 01:23:25,980
realize going into it you know and you

2182
01:23:28,970 --> 01:23:27,360
can see the sort of messages of this and

2183
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:28,980
Tesla and Edison who were making trying

2184
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:30,239
to make ways to communicate with the

2185
01:23:34,490 --> 01:23:32,400
dead it's tied in a little bit to EVPs

2186
01:23:37,610 --> 01:23:34,500
and such which pick up ghosts and Aliens

2187
01:23:40,610 --> 01:23:37,620
oh by the way yeah it's not that method

2188
01:23:42,590 --> 01:23:40,620
called like ITC trans instrumental

2189
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:42,600
communication I believe is what it's

2190
01:23:45,470 --> 01:23:43,920
called yeah

2191
01:23:46,910 --> 01:23:45,480
um and there was a famous Brazilian

2192
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:46,920
researcher Her Name Escapes Me in the

2193
01:23:50,870 --> 01:23:48,960
moment but she was just just picking up

2194
01:23:52,669 --> 01:23:50,880
ghost voices and then she started

2195
01:23:54,649 --> 01:23:52,679
picking up extra extraterrestrial voices

2196
01:23:56,030 --> 01:23:54,659
and she stopped She like shuttered her

2197
01:23:57,890 --> 01:23:56,040
laboratory and then she finally got

2198
01:23:59,990 --> 01:23:57,900
comfortable enough and of course they

2199
01:24:02,030 --> 01:24:00,000
were sharing very space brothery sort of

2200
01:24:03,410 --> 01:24:02,040
messages about coming in peace and all

2201
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:03,420
this sort of thing

2202
01:24:07,550 --> 01:24:05,760
um so yeah so that in some ways like the

2203
01:24:08,930 --> 01:24:07,560
presentation last night was just H after

2204
01:24:12,050 --> 01:24:08,940
the book because I play with so many

2205
01:24:14,510 --> 01:24:12,060
different ideas because the question

2206
01:24:15,890 --> 01:24:14,520
Still Remains so open-ended

2207
01:24:18,530 --> 01:24:15,900
um that there are a lot of different

2208
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:18,540
ways that you could sort of perceive it

2209
01:24:21,050 --> 01:24:19,440
and it's

2210
01:24:22,430 --> 01:24:21,060
not only about death but that's the only

2211
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,440
thing I found was that as I went through

2212
01:24:26,510 --> 01:24:24,480
it it's about you know death and life

2213
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:26,520
and rebirth and reincarnation because

2214
01:24:28,970 --> 01:24:27,840
you can't talk about death without

2215
01:24:30,410 --> 01:24:28,980
talking about birth and you can't talk

2216
01:24:32,330 --> 01:24:30,420
about birth without talking about right

2217
01:24:33,470 --> 01:24:32,340
you know sexual reproduction which the

2218
01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:33,480
phenomenon

2219
01:24:38,110 --> 01:24:35,520
has always been super associated with

2220
01:24:43,970 --> 01:24:41,930
well sometimes sometimes yeah for every

2221
01:24:46,970 --> 01:24:43,980
billable wise you have a you have a

2222
01:24:49,490 --> 01:24:46,980
Whitley streamer yeah oh there's one

2223
01:24:51,410 --> 01:24:49,500
case you brought up uh towards the end

2224
01:24:54,649 --> 01:24:51,420
of your presentation which has always

2225
01:25:00,430 --> 01:24:54,659
struck me it's a beautiful case of where

2226
01:25:03,530 --> 01:25:00,440
sort of culture and uh uh I guess

2227
01:25:06,110 --> 01:25:03,540
a core belief system within your culture

2228
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:06,120
of the afterlife really took effect in

2229
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:08,400
terms of UFO setting and that was with

2230
01:25:12,350 --> 01:25:10,320
um Cynthia Hines when she went to

2231
01:25:14,030 --> 01:25:12,360
investigate this case in Africa

2232
01:25:16,189 --> 01:25:14,040
um I remember hearing about this case

2233
01:25:18,530 --> 01:25:16,199
and when you put that image up of the

2234
01:25:20,689 --> 01:25:18,540
witness it just it hit me because I

2235
01:25:23,450 --> 01:25:20,699
hadn't thought about that case in years

2236
01:25:25,970 --> 01:25:23,460
and it was it's a prime example of how

2237
01:25:28,250 --> 01:25:25,980
one person interprets an experience as

2238
01:25:30,830 --> 01:25:28,260
opposed to another a UFO researcher

2239
01:25:33,410 --> 01:25:30,840
wanted to make it a UFO case whereas the

2240
01:25:35,930 --> 01:25:33,420
witness himself didn't so did you find

2241
01:25:38,990 --> 01:25:35,940
find that sort of pattern throughout

2242
01:25:42,350 --> 01:25:39,000
where like spirituality we'll put one

2243
01:25:45,229 --> 01:25:42,360
lens on a UFO experience and I guess

2244
01:25:47,870 --> 01:25:45,239
whatever else is anti-spirituality well

2245
01:25:49,189 --> 01:25:47,880
I would I would probably make that

2246
01:25:51,649 --> 01:25:49,199
um I'll probably draw that distinction

2247
01:25:53,810 --> 01:25:51,659
between like the modern West and and

2248
01:25:55,070 --> 01:25:53,820
just indigenous Technologies yeah that's

2249
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:55,080
what that's what I find time and again

2250
01:25:57,470 --> 01:25:56,159
is that not only do these cultures

2251
01:25:58,850 --> 01:25:57,480
interpret these through a spirit lens

2252
01:26:02,330 --> 01:25:58,860
but like

2253
01:26:04,070 --> 01:26:02,340
you know we're we're cultured to be

2254
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:04,080
generally skeptical and all I would

2255
01:26:07,610 --> 01:26:05,880
argue generally cynical yeah that's

2256
01:26:09,350 --> 01:26:07,620
cynical a little bit cynical

2257
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:09,360
um you know in our modern you know

2258
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:11,520
Society here and that's part of the

2259
01:26:14,810 --> 01:26:12,960
reason that a lot so much of Cynthia's

2260
01:26:16,910 --> 01:26:14,820
Heinz research research made it into the

2261
01:26:19,129 --> 01:26:16,920
book is because it's just a snapshot

2262
01:26:20,330 --> 01:26:19,139
it's it's a it's a it's a poor snapshot

2263
01:26:21,950 --> 01:26:20,340
in the sense that there's an entire

2264
01:26:23,450 --> 01:26:21,960
continent of Africa that we just don't

2265
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:23,460
talk about as an apologists right I mean

2266
01:26:27,169 --> 01:26:25,020
we kind of do but it's always in like

2267
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:27,179
the heavily colonialized areas and it's

2268
01:26:31,790 --> 01:26:29,520
like you know South Africa yeah South

2269
01:26:33,350 --> 01:26:31,800
Africa and you know even Zimbabwe is a

2270
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:33,360
long history of colonial occupation

2271
01:26:37,310 --> 01:26:35,520
stuff so this uh particular case that

2272
01:26:38,570 --> 01:26:37,320
you alluded to which is again consistent

2273
01:26:40,550 --> 01:26:38,580
with this idea of the other the

2274
01:26:41,810 --> 01:26:40,560
afterlife evolving

2275
01:26:43,729 --> 01:26:41,820
um which you see in a lot of different

2276
01:26:45,110 --> 01:26:43,739
cultures you know the the Egyptians said

2277
01:26:45,890 --> 01:26:45,120
that you still had to Farm after you

2278
01:26:47,110 --> 01:26:45,900
died

2279
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:47,120
um

2280
01:26:52,129 --> 01:26:49,920
when will labor not be a thing yeah

2281
01:26:53,149 --> 01:26:52,139
seriously you know Monday mornings I

2282
01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:53,159
guess yeah

2283
01:26:58,010 --> 01:26:54,960
um but you know you see this idea in

2284
01:26:59,450 --> 01:26:58,020
some uh Korean shamanisms stuff like

2285
01:27:01,129 --> 01:26:59,460
that to use the term shadows and

2286
01:27:02,390 --> 01:27:01,139
broccoli but um yeah the Clifford

2287
01:27:05,390 --> 01:27:02,400
michena case I've always thought was

2288
01:27:06,770 --> 01:27:05,400
this is so Charming in a lot of ways and

2289
01:27:08,570 --> 01:27:06,780
I don't I don't quite remember the date

2290
01:27:10,669 --> 01:27:08,580
off my hand I believe it was in the late

2291
01:27:13,129 --> 01:27:10,679
70s or early 80s but it was along the

2292
01:27:16,010 --> 01:27:13,139
Mozambique Zimbabwe border and he was uh

2293
01:27:17,930 --> 01:27:16,020
in his village and he was just doing

2294
01:27:19,729 --> 01:27:17,940
some some chores and he sees this

2295
01:27:20,990 --> 01:27:19,739
Fireball rolling through town and he's

2296
01:27:22,310 --> 01:27:21,000
convinced that at first that it's a fire

2297
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:22,320
and some other people are alarmed as

2298
01:27:26,090 --> 01:27:24,480
well so he runs to The Village's alarm

2299
01:27:28,310 --> 01:27:26,100
Bell and starts ringing it and as he

2300
01:27:29,870 --> 01:27:28,320
does he turns around and he sees this

2301
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:29,880
ball of fire and he's about to collapse

2302
01:27:34,490 --> 01:27:31,440
and fall to his knees but as he does he

2303
01:27:37,850 --> 01:27:34,500
sees several figures in shiny coveralls

2304
01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:37,860
and later he is contacted by Cynthia

2305
01:27:41,209 --> 01:27:39,960
hind who who eventually kind of found

2306
01:27:42,410 --> 01:27:41,219
the right way to ask the right questions

2307
01:27:44,870 --> 01:27:42,420
because she was always asking questions

2308
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:44,880
about UFOs and Spacemen

2309
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:48,480
and uh the the gentleman said uh

2310
01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:50,400
describing these figures in these shiny

2311
01:27:54,410 --> 01:27:53,040
coveralls and and she said well have you

2312
01:27:55,729 --> 01:27:54,420
ever heard of astronauts he was like you

2313
01:27:56,689 --> 01:27:55,739
mean like the guys who went to the moon

2314
01:27:59,030 --> 01:27:56,699
he's like yeah I've heard a little bit

2315
01:28:01,189 --> 01:27:59,040
about that but all of us who saw these

2316
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:01,199
things think that they were ghosts of

2317
01:28:05,149 --> 01:28:03,600
our ancestors and Cynthia Hines said

2318
01:28:06,649 --> 01:28:05,159
well with all due respect wouldn't your

2319
01:28:08,750 --> 01:28:06,659
ancestors be wearing something different

2320
01:28:10,430 --> 01:28:08,760
than shiny coveralls and Luciano

2321
01:28:14,030 --> 01:28:10,440
apparently Shrugged and said times

2322
01:28:16,669 --> 01:28:14,040
change which which which I love and I

2323
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:16,679
was you know I was just I was

2324
01:28:23,030 --> 01:28:19,440
it's we talk about a lot of strange and

2325
01:28:25,070 --> 01:28:23,040
foreign ideas when we talk about ufology

2326
01:28:27,050 --> 01:28:25,080
but the idea that

2327
01:28:29,390 --> 01:28:27,060
the other the afterlife is a mirror

2328
01:28:32,810 --> 01:28:29,400
where technological development can

2329
01:28:34,729 --> 01:28:32,820
continue a pace it's just it's it's so

2330
01:28:37,310 --> 01:28:34,739
it's almost that Stranger than we can

2331
01:28:38,750 --> 01:28:37,320
imagine you know what I mean um but you

2332
01:28:40,189 --> 01:28:38,760
see it but you see messages of this too

2333
01:28:42,830 --> 01:28:40,199
and like the fairy folklore where the

2334
01:28:44,330 --> 01:28:42,840
fairies would uh cry at births and laugh

2335
01:28:46,610 --> 01:28:44,340
at funerals so the idea that like

2336
01:28:49,189 --> 01:28:46,620
there's some sort of exchange or

2337
01:28:50,930 --> 01:28:49,199
transmission uh where a loss in that

2338
01:28:54,050 --> 01:28:50,940
world is a gain in this world who vice

2339
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:54,060
versa a revolving door I guess yeah and

2340
01:28:59,390 --> 01:28:57,120
it it brings Comfort I mean every

2341
01:29:02,990 --> 01:28:59,400
culture like

2342
01:29:05,149 --> 01:29:03,000
it's almost this innate Insanity when

2343
01:29:08,149 --> 01:29:05,159
you're born of you have no idea why

2344
01:29:09,890 --> 01:29:08,159
you're here like from birth you and

2345
01:29:13,010 --> 01:29:09,900
you're just trying to figure that out

2346
01:29:16,010 --> 01:29:13,020
for the remainder of this existence

2347
01:29:18,830 --> 01:29:16,020
whatever this might be and it it strikes

2348
01:29:21,830 --> 01:29:18,840
me as interesting that like a lot of

2349
01:29:23,810 --> 01:29:21,840
these cultures see death as the you're

2350
01:29:25,850 --> 01:29:23,820
right a stepping off point yeah to the

2351
01:29:28,669 --> 01:29:25,860
next chapter and I feel like that gives

2352
01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:28,679
you comfort in some senses well you know

2353
01:29:31,129 --> 01:29:30,000
that's that's the funny thing my wife is

2354
01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:31,139
like why are you writing a book about

2355
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:32,340
death no one wants to read about death

2356
01:29:36,649 --> 01:29:34,800
but but it ends up being you know a

2357
01:29:39,050 --> 01:29:36,659
really in my mind a very comforting book

2358
01:29:41,390 --> 01:29:39,060
because there's just

2359
01:29:43,189 --> 01:29:41,400
I think at the end of the day the most

2360
01:29:44,450 --> 01:29:43,199
uh conservative thing that we can say is

2361
01:29:46,129 --> 01:29:44,460
that we just don't understand what it

2362
01:29:47,689 --> 01:29:46,139
really represents you know like that's

2363
01:29:49,490 --> 01:29:47,699
the most conservative thing that we can

2364
01:29:51,169 --> 01:29:49,500
say but to your point about like you

2365
01:29:52,729 --> 01:29:51,179
know being sort of embodied and forced

2366
01:29:54,410 --> 01:29:52,739
into this reality this is something that

2367
01:29:55,850 --> 01:29:54,420
uh Terence McKenna who who coined the

2368
01:29:58,310 --> 01:29:55,860
term Ecology of souls after which the

2369
01:30:00,950 --> 01:29:58,320
book is named said you know he said that

2370
01:30:03,530 --> 01:30:00,960
part of the reason that part of the

2371
01:30:06,110 --> 01:30:03,540
reason that the Psychedelic reality is

2372
01:30:08,149 --> 01:30:06,120
so alien to us is because we simply

2373
01:30:10,430 --> 01:30:08,159
don't spend enough time there the only

2374
01:30:12,350 --> 01:30:10,440
reason that our reality is not

2375
01:30:15,050 --> 01:30:12,360
psychedelic is because we're embedded

2376
01:30:17,810 --> 01:30:15,060
within it so the idea was that it's just

2377
01:30:19,790 --> 01:30:17,820
as legitimate a reality

2378
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,800
but the reason that it remains so alien

2379
01:30:23,030 --> 01:30:21,120
and unfamiliar and has a sort of dream

2380
01:30:24,890 --> 01:30:23,040
logic is because we're not they are

2381
01:30:25,729 --> 01:30:24,900
Cradle to grave and if we were perhaps

2382
01:30:27,770 --> 01:30:25,739
we would actually have a better

2383
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:27,780
understanding of that which brings up a

2384
01:30:30,290 --> 01:30:29,040
whole new question of you know whenever

2385
01:30:31,669 --> 01:30:30,300
because you know these entities are

2386
01:30:35,090 --> 01:30:31,679
always surprised when they're seen right

2387
01:30:37,729 --> 01:30:35,100
so is there some you know uh Alien gray

2388
01:30:39,770 --> 01:30:37,739
in his sophomore college dorm taking D

2389
01:30:41,149 --> 01:30:39,780
taking mushrooms in the DMT realm or

2390
01:30:44,209 --> 01:30:41,159
something and popping over here and

2391
01:30:46,070 --> 01:30:44,219
being surprised you hear that in the

2392
01:30:48,050 --> 01:30:46,080
Supernatural realm as well of like

2393
01:30:50,149 --> 01:30:48,060
ghosts are often just a surprise to see

2394
01:30:52,669 --> 01:30:50,159
us as we are a Cryptids are as well yeah

2395
01:30:54,229 --> 01:30:52,679
so I kind of wonder if there's not you

2396
01:30:55,970 --> 01:30:54,239
know if that transmission isn't coming

2397
01:30:58,129 --> 01:30:55,980
this way as well it's like turning a

2398
01:31:00,890 --> 01:30:58,139
corner and bumping into somebody and and

2399
01:31:02,510 --> 01:31:00,900
I I would suggest that you know a good

2400
01:31:04,129 --> 01:31:02,520
way to see whether it's bleeding through

2401
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:04,139
or you're bleeding through is to look

2402
01:31:07,129 --> 01:31:05,940
for that for that missing time

2403
01:31:08,149 --> 01:31:07,139
um because that's something that really

2404
01:31:08,810 --> 01:31:08,159
is

2405
01:31:11,169 --> 01:31:08,820
um

2406
01:31:13,250 --> 01:31:11,179
I mean you find that sort of

2407
01:31:15,590 --> 01:31:13,260
misperception of time

2408
01:31:16,669 --> 01:31:15,600
in near-death experiences in psychedelic

2409
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:16,679
trips

2410
01:31:20,629 --> 01:31:18,719
in the fairy lore obviously in the UFO

2411
01:31:21,950 --> 01:31:20,639
war obviously and even in some cryptic

2412
01:31:23,390 --> 01:31:21,960
encounters too

2413
01:31:24,770 --> 01:31:23,400
so I think that might be sort of a you

2414
01:31:25,970 --> 01:31:24,780
don't see it in Ghost Stories which is

2415
01:31:28,129 --> 01:31:25,980
really interesting to me I'll look for

2416
01:31:30,410 --> 01:31:28,139
it whenever you find like missing time

2417
01:31:32,030 --> 01:31:30,420
and ghost stories it's almost always a

2418
01:31:33,709 --> 01:31:32,040
time slip and I did I did find a time

2419
01:31:35,330 --> 01:31:33,719
slip where they perceived that they were

2420
01:31:36,770 --> 01:31:35,340
only gone for like 20 minutes and they

2421
01:31:38,209 --> 01:31:36,780
were gone for three hours and but they

2422
01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:38,219
realized it was also a time slip because

2423
01:31:41,090 --> 01:31:39,719
like horses and carriages were going by

2424
01:31:42,890 --> 01:31:41,100
us

2425
01:31:44,090 --> 01:31:42,900
so to me it seems like the the missing

2426
01:31:46,729 --> 01:31:44,100
time is like

2427
01:31:48,229 --> 01:31:46,739
is typically a Hallmark of of that

2428
01:31:49,850 --> 01:31:48,239
transition so that might be a good way a

2429
01:31:51,290 --> 01:31:49,860
good metric to to judge whether or not

2430
01:31:53,570 --> 01:31:51,300
you you went somewhere where something

2431
01:31:54,770 --> 01:31:53,580
came to you right absolutely oh that's

2432
01:31:56,990 --> 01:31:54,780
fascinating

2433
01:31:58,370 --> 01:31:57,000
um one other thing I kind of want to

2434
01:31:59,629 --> 01:31:58,380
touch on with you we'll wrap things up

2435
01:32:01,610 --> 01:31:59,639
here because we're actually going to see

2436
01:32:05,390 --> 01:32:01,620
one of our colleagues speak

2437
01:32:08,149 --> 01:32:05,400
um uh is you brought up Ingo swan in one

2438
01:32:10,850 --> 01:32:08,159
of these cases I wrote about this like

2439
01:32:13,310 --> 01:32:10,860
six years ago where he remote viewed the

2440
01:32:14,750 --> 01:32:13,320
moon and had an interesting experience

2441
01:32:16,370 --> 01:32:14,760
could you run us through that a little

2442
01:32:18,050 --> 01:32:16,380
bit and why you decided to put it in the

2443
01:32:19,250 --> 01:32:18,060
book well you know it's it's it's funny

2444
01:32:21,169 --> 01:32:19,260
because

2445
01:32:22,550 --> 01:32:21,179
every case that I put in the book is not

2446
01:32:24,169 --> 01:32:22,560
necessarily endorsement of the validity

2447
01:32:26,090 --> 01:32:24,179
of the case it's more like to say

2448
01:32:27,950 --> 01:32:26,100
because I'm I'm a big I'm known for my

2449
01:32:29,270 --> 01:32:27,960
footnotes and my endnotes right so it's

2450
01:32:31,070 --> 01:32:29,280
it's more like you know well this is

2451
01:32:32,510 --> 01:32:31,080
what's said and if it is true it

2452
01:32:33,709 --> 01:32:32,520
conforms to X Y and Z it's not

2453
01:32:35,390 --> 01:32:33,719
necessarily always an endorsement so I

2454
01:32:37,189 --> 01:32:35,400
view the Ingo Swan story even though I

2455
01:32:39,050 --> 01:32:37,199
love it to death yeah it's kind of like

2456
01:32:40,910 --> 01:32:39,060
really because it's so far out but um he

2457
01:32:42,290 --> 01:32:40,920
was the short short version is what he

2458
01:32:44,750 --> 01:32:42,300
was tasked with some coordinates on the

2459
01:32:46,189 --> 01:32:44,760
dark side of the moon and he was

2460
01:32:48,050 --> 01:32:46,199
surprised to find that there was an

2461
01:32:49,250 --> 01:32:48,060
entire like mining operation more or

2462
01:32:51,590 --> 01:32:49,260
less that was working there with with

2463
01:32:53,450 --> 01:32:51,600
humanoids present and in remote viewing

2464
01:32:56,330 --> 01:32:53,460
it's always assumed that you can't be

2465
01:32:58,490 --> 01:32:56,340
seen uh by by the people if there are

2466
01:33:00,530 --> 01:32:58,500
any that you're viewing but in this case

2467
01:33:01,970 --> 01:33:00,540
he was seen and they turned around and

2468
01:33:03,830 --> 01:33:01,980
they seemed to have a look of

2469
01:33:05,330 --> 01:33:03,840
recognition on his faces and Ingo sort

2470
01:33:07,070 --> 01:33:05,340
of wrestled with that aspect of it for a

2471
01:33:08,750 --> 01:33:07,080
while he decided that if they were able

2472
01:33:10,070 --> 01:33:08,760
to see him and he was getting a genuine

2473
01:33:11,870 --> 01:33:10,080
Vision that they must have been

2474
01:33:13,490 --> 01:33:11,880
psychically sensitive

2475
01:33:15,229 --> 01:33:13,500
um but the question that I always ask is

2476
01:33:18,590 --> 01:33:15,239
like okay well that's cool how did how

2477
01:33:20,570 --> 01:33:18,600
did the moonites perceive Ingo Swan did

2478
01:33:23,870 --> 01:33:20,580
they see Ingo did they see as I would

2479
01:33:26,629 --> 01:33:23,880
assume a ball of light and if they saw a

2480
01:33:29,810 --> 01:33:26,639
ball of light in the sky and it was Ingo

2481
01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:29,820
Swan remote viewing the moon then I mean

2482
01:33:33,350 --> 01:33:31,920
this is highly speculative but like

2483
01:33:36,050 --> 01:33:33,360
what's keeping an extraterrestrial

2484
01:33:37,310 --> 01:33:36,060
civilization who I would assume would

2485
01:33:38,689 --> 01:33:37,320
have discovered the same techniques of

2486
01:33:40,010 --> 01:33:38,699
remote viewing what's keeping them from

2487
01:33:41,470 --> 01:33:40,020
remote viewing the Earth and appearing

2488
01:33:43,490 --> 01:33:41,480
as lights in our sky

2489
01:33:45,169 --> 01:33:43,500
and then of course you know the fact

2490
01:33:47,209 --> 01:33:45,179
that you have to be psychically attuned

2491
01:33:50,209 --> 01:33:47,219
to witness remote viewers from that

2492
01:33:52,370 --> 01:33:50,219
other end of the of the uh scenario kind

2493
01:33:54,590 --> 01:33:52,380
of kind of fits well with the the heavy

2494
01:33:56,750 --> 01:33:54,600
incidence of psychic sensitivity amongst

2495
01:33:58,370 --> 01:33:56,760
UFO witnesses as well so you know

2496
01:33:59,810 --> 01:33:58,380
there's so many different ideas to play

2497
01:34:01,729 --> 01:33:59,820
with yeah and that's the thing is like

2498
01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:01,739
it just turned into the gift that kept

2499
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:04,080
on giving so I wanted to write one book

2500
01:34:08,510 --> 01:34:06,239
and it turned into two books and it's

2501
01:34:10,250 --> 01:34:08,520
just a function of nobody wants a book

2502
01:34:12,770 --> 01:34:10,260
that big and I don't trust the binding

2503
01:34:14,930 --> 01:34:12,780
to actually hold up over time so

2504
01:34:16,129 --> 01:34:14,940
um so it's volume one Ecology of Souls

2505
01:34:18,830 --> 01:34:16,139
and new mythology of death in the

2506
01:34:20,330 --> 01:34:18,840
Paranormal volume one volume two and

2507
01:34:22,430 --> 01:34:20,340
then there is a third completely

2508
01:34:24,290 --> 01:34:22,440
optional supplemental volume called the

2509
01:34:25,610 --> 01:34:24,300
Ecology of souls companion it's

2510
01:34:27,590 --> 01:34:25,620
available in print if you're a

2511
01:34:29,330 --> 01:34:27,600
completionist like me but it's also

2512
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,340
available freely on my website and it's

2513
01:34:33,169 --> 01:34:31,440
got all the endnotes the full

2514
01:34:34,970 --> 01:34:33,179
bibliography and it also has three

2515
01:34:37,729 --> 01:34:34,980
appendices which are

2516
01:34:39,649 --> 01:34:37,739
the Dead who are known to experiencers

2517
01:34:41,209 --> 01:34:39,659
who appear during UFO contact the Dead

2518
01:34:42,530 --> 01:34:41,219
who are not known which is kind of a

2519
01:34:43,790 --> 01:34:42,540
trickier thing to figure out but there's

2520
01:34:45,649 --> 01:34:43,800
there's some interesting stories that

2521
01:34:47,330 --> 01:34:45,659
someone like meeting someone they give

2522
01:34:48,830 --> 01:34:47,340
them their name and they find out later

2523
01:34:50,750 --> 01:34:48,840
like some researchers came along and

2524
01:34:52,189 --> 01:34:50,760
found out that the person was in South

2525
01:34:53,689 --> 01:34:52,199
Dakota and had died three years earlier

2526
01:34:55,609 --> 01:34:53,699
yeah so it's an interesting

2527
01:34:58,010 --> 01:34:55,619
corroborative stories like that and then

2528
01:34:59,810 --> 01:34:58,020
just a snapshot and none of these are

2529
01:35:01,430 --> 01:34:59,820
are exhaustive but they are they do sort

2530
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:01,440
of illustrate the the tendency or the

2531
01:35:06,709 --> 01:35:03,840
frequency of these these particular

2532
01:35:08,870 --> 01:35:06,719
modalities and the third one is um

2533
01:35:10,430 --> 01:35:08,880
UFOs seen around modern burial sites

2534
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:10,440
like cemeteries and graveyards right

2535
01:35:14,209 --> 01:35:12,480
which we didn't even touch on well guys

2536
01:35:15,350 --> 01:35:14,219
you're gonna have to read the plot into

2537
01:35:18,109 --> 01:35:15,360
that I know

2538
01:35:20,390 --> 01:35:18,119
um well before we go Josh um

2539
01:35:23,030 --> 01:35:20,400
last question what do you hope people

2540
01:35:24,350 --> 01:35:23,040
take away from the series of books what

2541
01:35:25,370 --> 01:35:24,360
do you what was kind of your mission

2542
01:35:26,930 --> 01:35:25,380
with this

2543
01:35:31,010 --> 01:35:26,940
so what I hope people would take away

2544
01:35:34,490 --> 01:35:31,020
from this um is that is that

2545
01:35:37,370 --> 01:35:34,500
even though we are not a selfless

2546
01:35:40,189 --> 01:35:37,380
species we you know the environment we

2547
01:35:42,229 --> 01:35:40,199
uh to Max selfishly you know selfishness

2548
01:35:44,750 --> 01:35:42,239
is not in short supply these days

2549
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:44,760
um I think that the phenomenon might be

2550
01:35:49,669 --> 01:35:47,760
trying to to sort of help us refocus

2551
01:35:51,350 --> 01:35:49,679
ourselves on ourselves

2552
01:35:53,149 --> 01:35:51,360
by which I mean

2553
01:35:55,250 --> 01:35:53,159
the better parts of ourselves right The

2554
01:35:56,689 --> 01:35:55,260
Compassion the stewardship of the

2555
01:35:58,250 --> 01:35:56,699
environment

2556
01:36:01,729 --> 01:35:58,260
um the

2557
01:36:03,590 --> 01:36:01,739
the immortality that is I believe at

2558
01:36:05,450 --> 01:36:03,600
this point our Birthright and that is a

2559
01:36:08,270 --> 01:36:05,460
fundamental part of being embodied on

2560
01:36:11,450 --> 01:36:08,280
this planet and to realize that and to

2561
01:36:13,550 --> 01:36:11,460
realize that um because there's so much

2562
01:36:15,169 --> 01:36:13,560
pressure taken off of us

2563
01:36:18,350 --> 01:36:15,179
from what seems like this terminal end

2564
01:36:19,669 --> 01:36:18,360
that that actually frees us to do more

2565
01:36:22,189 --> 01:36:19,679
good

2566
01:36:24,770 --> 01:36:22,199
while we're here that's beautiful man

2567
01:36:28,250 --> 01:36:24,780
yeah I love that I love that not living

2568
01:36:30,410 --> 01:36:28,260
for death but like dying for Life almost

2569
01:36:31,970 --> 01:36:30,420
no and we know exactly that's sort of a

2570
01:36:33,290 --> 01:36:31,980
constant refrain that comes across the

2571
01:36:35,270 --> 01:36:33,300
book which I didn't really realize but

2572
01:36:37,609 --> 01:36:35,280
again you find this in the near-death

2573
01:36:39,410 --> 01:36:37,619
experience you find it in a lot of you

2574
01:36:40,910 --> 01:36:39,420
know UFO contact experiences you find it

2575
01:36:42,470 --> 01:36:40,920
in a ton of psychedelic trips and you

2576
01:36:44,270 --> 01:36:42,480
find it in stuff like the uh you know

2577
01:36:46,729 --> 01:36:44,280
the Greek mystery Cults like the holy

2578
01:36:50,270 --> 01:36:46,739
city Mysteries it's this refrain of die

2579
01:36:51,649 --> 01:36:50,280
to death so you remove death as an

2580
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:51,659
impediment to what you're going to do

2581
01:36:54,590 --> 01:36:53,040
here so that you can actually start

2582
01:36:56,990 --> 01:36:54,600
living and so you can actually use the

2583
01:37:00,410 --> 01:36:57,000
time that you have to

2584
01:37:02,090 --> 01:37:00,420
seek inner peace to learn to better the

2585
01:37:03,890 --> 01:37:02,100
lives of those around you and you know

2586
01:37:06,890 --> 01:37:03,900
once you realize that death is not the

2587
01:37:08,870 --> 01:37:06,900
end to improve your standing as you

2588
01:37:10,850 --> 01:37:08,880
continue being laundered through this

2589
01:37:13,370 --> 01:37:10,860
Ecology of Souls

2590
01:37:15,290 --> 01:37:13,380
okay we could not wrap it up any better

2591
01:37:17,750 --> 01:37:15,300
my man one more time where can we find

2592
01:37:19,129 --> 01:37:17,760
the book in all your work uh well I want

2593
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:19,139
to self-publish this one so it's

2594
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:21,600
available exclusively at Amazon Ecology

2595
01:37:26,030 --> 01:37:23,760
of souls a new mythology of death in the

2596
01:37:27,350 --> 01:37:26,040
Paranormal volumes one and two companion

2597
01:37:28,609 --> 01:37:27,360
book optional

2598
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:28,619
um you can find links to that if you

2599
01:37:33,770 --> 01:37:31,760
can't remember that at joshuacutchen.com

2600
01:37:35,870 --> 01:37:33,780
j-o-s-h-u-a-c-u-t-c-h-i-n.com I also

2601
01:37:38,689 --> 01:37:35,880
have an email address where I offer

2602
01:37:40,790 --> 01:37:38,699
signed copies at a discount because

2603
01:37:41,930 --> 01:37:40,800
Amazon doesn't allow you to do like if

2604
01:37:43,669 --> 01:37:41,940
you buy the complete series you get a

2605
01:37:45,890 --> 01:37:43,679
discount but I do so I offer a discount

2606
01:37:47,450 --> 01:37:45,900
as well so any of those places reach out

2607
01:37:50,290 --> 01:37:47,460
to me and we'll get you a copy awesome

2608
01:37:54,169 --> 01:37:50,300
Josh thank you for joining me on someone

2609
01:37:57,050 --> 01:37:54,179
it really has it really has

2610
01:37:58,850 --> 01:37:57,060
all right guys once more I am here at

2611
01:38:01,129 --> 01:37:58,860
the Midwest conference on the unknown

2612
01:38:03,649 --> 01:38:01,139
it's been an incredible weekend we're on

2613
01:38:07,250 --> 01:38:03,659
day three things are sort of wrapping up

2614
01:38:09,830 --> 01:38:07,260
here uh but but that doesn't mean that

2615
01:38:12,649 --> 01:38:09,840
day three is any less important because

2616
01:38:14,510 --> 01:38:12,659
we saw one of the best talks I think

2617
01:38:17,450 --> 01:38:14,520
personally of the conference this

2618
01:38:20,450 --> 01:38:17,460
morning as a UFO person I don't tackle

2619
01:38:23,450 --> 01:38:20,460
the supernatural often but this

2620
01:38:25,550 --> 01:38:23,460
presentation is I think what would get

2621
01:38:28,250 --> 01:38:25,560
people into that when you have someone

2622
01:38:30,169 --> 01:38:28,260
like this in the world of paranormal and

2623
01:38:32,390 --> 01:38:30,179
Supernatural you know it's in good hands

2624
01:38:34,250 --> 01:38:32,400
so for the very first time on somewhere

2625
01:38:37,850 --> 01:38:34,260
in the skies I want to welcome Courtney

2626
01:38:40,070 --> 01:38:37,860
block the liminal librarian welcome to

2627
01:38:42,350 --> 01:38:40,080
the show thank you so much for having me

2628
01:38:43,609 --> 01:38:42,360
Ryan and thank you seriously so much for

2629
01:38:45,169 --> 01:38:43,619
the words that you just said like I'm

2630
01:38:47,770 --> 01:38:45,179
trying not to tear up a little bit I'm

2631
01:38:51,050 --> 01:38:47,780
just so humbled and grateful to be here

2632
01:38:52,850 --> 01:38:51,060
and excited to to meet everybody here at

2633
01:38:55,310 --> 01:38:52,860
this conference and also really glad

2634
01:38:57,830 --> 01:38:55,320
that the presentation came off that that

2635
01:39:00,169 --> 01:38:57,840
way so thank you for saying that my

2636
01:39:02,510 --> 01:39:00,179
pleasure and like your talk um for those

2637
01:39:04,910 --> 01:39:02,520
who aren't here was at 10 A.M which is

2638
01:39:06,109 --> 01:39:04,920
hard at a conference everyone's waking

2639
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:06,119
up

2640
01:39:09,770 --> 01:39:07,920
um they're on their first coffee of the

2641
01:39:12,410 --> 01:39:09,780
day and

2642
01:39:14,390 --> 01:39:12,420
um I've been there I've been there so

2643
01:39:17,390 --> 01:39:14,400
the fact that you had a really good

2644
01:39:19,189 --> 01:39:17,400
turnout and people were engaged um it

2645
01:39:20,990 --> 01:39:19,199
says something and I think it says

2646
01:39:23,270 --> 01:39:21,000
something about the topic too that you

2647
01:39:24,649 --> 01:39:23,280
covered um so let's start there can you

2648
01:39:26,750 --> 01:39:24,659
tell us a little about your presentation

2649
01:39:28,250 --> 01:39:26,760
you know maybe the cliff notes version

2650
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:28,260
and then we'll dive a little deeper

2651
01:39:32,209 --> 01:39:30,719
after that yes yes and I'll like to

2652
01:39:34,669 --> 01:39:32,219
point out too that I'm not a morning

2653
01:39:36,950 --> 01:39:34,679
person either so when I saw that I was

2654
01:39:39,169 --> 01:39:36,960
like okay I'm just gonna be a master of

2655
01:39:40,850 --> 01:39:39,179
Illusion about it and just try to keep

2656
01:39:45,169 --> 01:39:40,860
my energy up but yeah it was a great

2657
01:39:49,129 --> 01:39:45,179
turnout so um the presentation was half

2658
01:39:52,310 --> 01:39:49,139
of an an introduction to the history of

2659
01:39:56,629 --> 01:39:52,320
paranormal research primarily focused on

2660
01:39:59,990 --> 01:39:56,639
early psychical research of the 1800s

2661
01:40:03,050 --> 01:40:00,000
through the early 1900s and I touch on

2662
01:40:05,570 --> 01:40:03,060
Modern efforts as well and then the

2663
01:40:07,689 --> 01:40:05,580
second half of the presentation was a

2664
01:40:10,370 --> 01:40:07,699
workshop kind of

2665
01:40:12,890 --> 01:40:10,380
where I presented resources and

2666
01:40:15,890 --> 01:40:12,900
databases completely free that people

2667
01:40:18,890 --> 01:40:15,900
can access to find more information not

2668
01:40:20,450 --> 01:40:18,900
only about the psychical things that I

2669
01:40:22,729 --> 01:40:20,460
talked about but all of the other things

2670
01:40:23,990 --> 01:40:22,739
like that you talked about UFO incidents

2671
01:40:26,209 --> 01:40:24,000
and all the other things that people

2672
01:40:29,629 --> 01:40:26,219
have talked about here so I just want to

2673
01:40:31,430 --> 01:40:29,639
know I I just wanted people to know that

2674
01:40:33,050 --> 01:40:31,440
there are resources that they can access

2675
01:40:36,109 --> 01:40:33,060
completely free

2676
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:36,119
wherever they are to find really great

2677
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:39,840
primary sources and secondary sources so

2678
01:40:42,950 --> 01:40:41,280
that they can research the weird

2679
01:40:44,629 --> 01:40:42,960
wherever they are right

2680
01:40:47,689 --> 01:40:44,639
right well and you know what's funny I

2681
01:40:50,090 --> 01:40:47,699
you know the first time I ever read a

2682
01:40:52,669 --> 01:40:50,100
UFO book was a book I took out from the

2683
01:40:55,450 --> 01:40:52,679
library and it's been so long since then

2684
01:40:58,430 --> 01:40:55,460
that it didn't dawn on me until today

2685
01:41:00,410 --> 01:40:58,440
and I you know we live in the age where

2686
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:00,420
like you click a button the book's there

2687
01:41:06,590 --> 01:41:03,360
in like a day or you just download it

2688
01:41:07,850 --> 01:41:06,600
and you you see and I'm sure as a

2689
01:41:10,189 --> 01:41:07,860
librarian

2690
01:41:11,930 --> 01:41:10,199
um you've seen that landscape change

2691
01:41:13,490 --> 01:41:11,940
drastically

2692
01:41:15,649 --> 01:41:13,500
um you know my father works in the

2693
01:41:18,590 --> 01:41:15,659
printing company and it's the same thing

2694
01:41:21,109 --> 01:41:18,600
you're kind of like how much longer

2695
01:41:23,629 --> 01:41:21,119
can something like this last even books

2696
01:41:27,530 --> 01:41:23,639
in print you know at this point so I'm

2697
01:41:30,890 --> 01:41:27,540
sure it's it's a liminal experience in

2698
01:41:32,810 --> 01:41:30,900
some ways but um I guess maybe tell us a

2699
01:41:35,510 --> 01:41:32,820
little about yeah that like that whole

2700
01:41:37,550 --> 01:41:35,520
the importance of libraries especially

2701
01:41:39,229 --> 01:41:37,560
when it comes to these topics you always

2702
01:41:41,270 --> 01:41:39,239
see in the movies you know like everyone

2703
01:41:43,910 --> 01:41:41,280
goes to the library to research what

2704
01:41:45,649 --> 01:41:43,920
ghost is there yeah okay thank you for

2705
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:45,659
that observation and the opportunity to

2706
01:41:48,530 --> 01:41:47,040
answer this

2707
01:41:50,090 --> 01:41:48,540
um although sometimes people joke like

2708
01:41:52,490 --> 01:41:50,100
oh my gosh don't get her started on

2709
01:41:54,649 --> 01:41:52,500
libraries or she'll never shut up

2710
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:54,659
um but yeah so libraries have always

2711
01:41:58,669 --> 01:41:57,600
been liminal I I really firmly believe

2712
01:42:00,109 --> 01:41:58,679
that

2713
01:42:03,470 --> 01:42:00,119
um there have been so many different

2714
01:42:05,629 --> 01:42:03,480
media over the years you've got books on

2715
01:42:09,410 --> 01:42:05,639
cassette were once a thing and then

2716
01:42:11,330 --> 01:42:09,420
books on CD and then uh now we've got

2717
01:42:13,729 --> 01:42:11,340
streaming books that you can access

2718
01:42:14,930 --> 01:42:13,739
through the library so in a way there

2719
01:42:17,330 --> 01:42:14,940
are so many

2720
01:42:18,890 --> 01:42:17,340
so many instances in which you are using

2721
01:42:20,930 --> 01:42:18,900
the Library without even physically

2722
01:42:23,570 --> 01:42:20,940
being in the library that's sort of the

2723
01:42:25,669 --> 01:42:23,580
world that we're in now so libraries

2724
01:42:28,370 --> 01:42:25,679
have always been really good at adapting

2725
01:42:30,530 --> 01:42:28,380
to change and we're going to continue to

2726
01:42:32,390 --> 01:42:30,540
adapt to change and one of the things

2727
01:42:34,850 --> 01:42:32,400
that I really also love about libraries

2728
01:42:36,649 --> 01:42:34,860
is not only the resources that they

2729
01:42:38,450 --> 01:42:36,659
provide to people completely free of

2730
01:42:41,030 --> 01:42:38,460
charge because like I said disposable

2731
01:42:44,209 --> 01:42:41,040
income is a privilege and the ability to

2732
01:42:47,510 --> 01:42:44,219
be able to purchase books comfortably is

2733
01:42:49,729 --> 01:42:47,520
a privilege and not only books but just

2734
01:42:52,250 --> 01:42:49,739
databases that nobody has the ability to

2735
01:42:53,930 --> 01:42:52,260
to be to get a subscription to like the

2736
01:42:56,149 --> 01:42:53,940
historic New York Times unless you're

2737
01:42:59,570 --> 01:42:56,159
you know super rich or whatever

2738
01:43:02,090 --> 01:42:59,580
um but also just the spaces that

2739
01:43:04,129 --> 01:43:02,100
libraries provide it's also a very

2740
01:43:07,729 --> 01:43:04,139
liminal thing and I think it's a radical

2741
01:43:10,669 --> 01:43:07,739
thing because where else in society can

2742
01:43:13,010 --> 01:43:10,679
you just go and you don't have to have a

2743
01:43:15,350 --> 01:43:13,020
reason to be there nobody's gonna

2744
01:43:18,410 --> 01:43:15,360
question you you can literally sit a

2745
01:43:22,189 --> 01:43:18,420
table all day if you want and just be at

2746
01:43:24,350 --> 01:43:22,199
the library and I think that in in this

2747
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:24,360
Society where so much is you know very

2748
01:43:29,629 --> 01:43:27,119
consumer driven very capitalist I mean

2749
01:43:33,410 --> 01:43:29,639
libraries are an active Rebellion they

2750
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:33,420
are liminal spaces and I could go on

2751
01:43:38,149 --> 01:43:36,960
yeah no it's a fascinating um issue and

2752
01:43:40,609 --> 01:43:38,159
topic

2753
01:43:42,590 --> 01:43:40,619
um and what else I found fascinating

2754
01:43:44,209 --> 01:43:42,600
about your talk is you know in the world

2755
01:43:47,330 --> 01:43:44,219
of paranormal from someone on the

2756
01:43:50,030 --> 01:43:47,340
outside looking in when you see how it's

2757
01:43:52,850 --> 01:43:50,040
handled in entertainment or a lot of the

2758
01:43:54,950 --> 01:43:52,860
demographic you often see a lot of just

2759
01:43:57,890 --> 01:43:54,960
and it's the same in the UFO world just

2760
01:44:00,890 --> 01:43:57,900
white males and um what I loved about

2761
01:44:04,609 --> 01:44:00,900
your talk is you highlighted the work of

2762
01:44:06,830 --> 01:44:04,619
a lot of female cyclical researchers and

2763
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:06,840
um and some that weren't from the

2764
01:44:10,550 --> 01:44:08,880
Western world even uh could you mind

2765
01:44:12,470 --> 01:44:10,560
touching on maybe one or two of these

2766
01:44:14,810 --> 01:44:12,480
individuals who you highlighted they

2767
01:44:17,689 --> 01:44:14,820
were really interesting people they

2768
01:44:19,970 --> 01:44:17,699
rebels in their own in their own way yes

2769
01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:19,980
yes and also liminal figures because

2770
01:44:25,490 --> 01:44:23,280
they get overlooked so much

2771
01:44:28,370 --> 01:44:25,500
um so one of the ladies that I talked

2772
01:44:30,709 --> 01:44:28,380
about was Mary boole who was actually a

2773
01:44:33,050 --> 01:44:30,719
founding member of the British Society

2774
01:44:36,350 --> 01:44:33,060
for psychical research but she's almost

2775
01:44:38,270 --> 01:44:36,360
never mentioned people talk about you

2776
01:44:41,629 --> 01:44:38,280
know Frederick W H Myers and Frank

2777
01:44:44,450 --> 01:44:41,639
podmore and like these other men uh but

2778
01:44:46,910 --> 01:44:44,460
Mary boole was a founding member of the

2779
01:44:49,189 --> 01:44:46,920
society for technical research when it

2780
01:44:50,570 --> 01:44:49,199
was formed in 1882 and she was only on

2781
01:44:52,910 --> 01:44:50,580
the board for a few months though

2782
01:44:55,189 --> 01:44:52,920
because her official reason for leaving

2783
01:44:57,470 --> 01:44:55,199
was that she was the only female member

2784
01:45:01,129 --> 01:44:57,480
on the board so

2785
01:45:03,229 --> 01:45:01,139
we can sort of infer from that maybe we

2786
01:45:06,950 --> 01:45:03,239
don't know exactly what she

2787
01:45:09,050 --> 01:45:06,960
meant necessarily by that or how that

2788
01:45:11,330 --> 01:45:09,060
sort of played out in her time on the

2789
01:45:15,229 --> 01:45:11,340
board but that is why she left but she

2790
01:45:18,109 --> 01:45:15,239
was a self-taught mathematician she

2791
01:45:20,629 --> 01:45:18,119
wrote books about psychical topics

2792
01:45:22,010 --> 01:45:20,639
especially for mothers uh there's I

2793
01:45:23,330 --> 01:45:22,020
can't remember the title of her book but

2794
01:45:25,910 --> 01:45:23,340
she wrote a book that was specifically

2795
01:45:29,030 --> 01:45:25,920
geared towards like mothers like new

2796
01:45:32,149 --> 01:45:29,040
mothers and psychical topics yeah and

2797
01:45:34,370 --> 01:45:32,159
you can read it online and then another

2798
01:45:36,550 --> 01:45:34,380
figure which who is fascinating is

2799
01:45:39,709 --> 01:45:36,560
tomokichi fukurai who is a Japanese

2800
01:45:42,530 --> 01:45:39,719
parapsychologist who for a long period

2801
01:45:45,910 --> 01:45:42,540
of time had a seminal textbook on

2802
01:45:49,129 --> 01:45:45,920
hypnosis and introduced the concept of

2803
01:45:50,530 --> 01:45:49,139
thoughtography in Japan but

2804
01:45:53,149 --> 01:45:50,540
unfortunately

2805
01:45:56,090 --> 01:45:53,159
his case is a little bit of a sad one

2806
01:45:58,250 --> 01:45:56,100
people can look into it but after his

2807
01:46:01,729 --> 01:45:58,260
downfall unfortunately parapsychology

2808
01:46:04,790 --> 01:46:01,739
didn't gain another foothold or interest

2809
01:46:07,609 --> 01:46:04,800
in within the academy to me in Japan for

2810
01:46:10,129 --> 01:46:07,619
another 30 years so it's always been a

2811
01:46:12,770 --> 01:46:10,139
tenuous field yeah so he was ahead of

2812
01:46:14,390 --> 01:46:12,780
his time you know you always hear these

2813
01:46:17,090 --> 01:46:14,400
stories of like those who have to step

2814
01:46:20,390 --> 01:46:17,100
on the landmines for the rest of us to

2815
01:46:22,550 --> 01:46:20,400
run forward so he was a true Pioneer I

2816
01:46:24,830 --> 01:46:22,560
think especially in Japan right I would

2817
01:46:26,810 --> 01:46:24,840
assume um and he had sort of a

2818
01:46:29,629 --> 01:46:26,820
connection to the ring am I right one of

2819
01:46:32,750 --> 01:46:29,639
my favorite movies yes I came across an

2820
01:46:35,149 --> 01:46:32,760
article and in the article the author

2821
01:46:37,430 --> 01:46:35,159
was referencing the just tomoki Chief

2822
01:46:39,649 --> 01:46:37,440
who cries life and work and also the

2823
01:46:42,649 --> 01:46:39,659
fact that he was the inspiration for the

2824
01:46:45,050 --> 01:46:42,659
storyline with the researcher doing the

2825
01:46:48,109 --> 01:46:45,060
psychical studies and so forth and the

2826
01:46:49,970 --> 01:46:48,119
ring yeah yeah interesting ringu check

2827
01:46:51,229 --> 01:46:49,980
it out guys either The American or

2828
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:51,239
Japanese version

2829
01:46:56,030 --> 01:46:53,520
um another interesting thing is you know

2830
01:46:58,129 --> 01:46:56,040
we saw Ken Gerhart talk about Bigfoot

2831
01:47:00,050 --> 01:46:58,139
yesterday and he brings up the plaster

2832
01:47:02,390 --> 01:47:00,060
casts like some of the best evidence we

2833
01:47:05,810 --> 01:47:02,400
have of Bigfoot are these footprints

2834
01:47:08,689 --> 01:47:05,820
that we find and you also talked about

2835
01:47:10,070 --> 01:47:08,699
plaster casts what is that I I that's

2836
01:47:12,950 --> 01:47:10,080
something I've never heard in the

2837
01:47:16,189 --> 01:47:12,960
Paranormal world yes that is a wild

2838
01:47:20,870 --> 01:47:16,199
example so I talked about plaster

2839
01:47:24,530 --> 01:47:20,880
castings in the seances of the Polish

2840
01:47:26,990 --> 01:47:24,540
medium fronic kluskey and he was

2841
01:47:30,590 --> 01:47:27,000
investigated by French psychical

2842
01:47:34,030 --> 01:47:30,600
researcher Gustav Gale who during the

2843
01:47:37,370 --> 01:47:34,040
seances where these strange anomalous

2844
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:37,380
hands and feet would materialize and

2845
01:47:43,850 --> 01:47:40,080
Gustav Goulet was like wait a minute I

2846
01:47:46,310 --> 01:47:43,860
need a mold of those hands and feet and

2847
01:47:48,290 --> 01:47:46,320
and I imagine in much the same way that

2848
01:47:52,189 --> 01:47:48,300
you would cast a print of a supposed

2849
01:47:55,129 --> 01:47:52,199
Bigfoot they were molded during the same

2850
01:47:56,750 --> 01:47:55,139
time so it is a bit of a wild example

2851
01:47:59,390 --> 01:47:56,760
it's crazy

2852
01:48:02,570 --> 01:47:59,400
um well and the thing you know a lot of

2853
01:48:05,149 --> 01:48:02,580
um these old conferences were very

2854
01:48:07,790 --> 01:48:05,159
um stuffy the lectures were like you

2855
01:48:09,229 --> 01:48:07,800
know they put 10 paragraphs up on her

2856
01:48:10,850 --> 01:48:09,239
and you're like sitting there like

2857
01:48:12,590 --> 01:48:10,860
reading it you're like what is the point

2858
01:48:14,870 --> 01:48:12,600
of this but what I loved about your talk

2859
01:48:17,090 --> 01:48:14,880
is there was very little text in a lot

2860
01:48:19,490 --> 01:48:17,100
of images where you would um tell

2861
01:48:21,290 --> 01:48:19,500
stories and you also found a lot of

2862
01:48:24,590 --> 01:48:21,300
really old stories digging in the

2863
01:48:27,830 --> 01:48:24,600
archives and they were very um a lot of

2864
01:48:29,450 --> 01:48:27,840
them were very endearing and funny which

2865
01:48:32,030 --> 01:48:29,460
again is a part of all this the

2866
01:48:34,729 --> 01:48:32,040
weirdness we have to live in that you

2867
01:48:37,430 --> 01:48:34,739
know it's not all sad and depressing or

2868
01:48:38,870 --> 01:48:37,440
scary like there's moments of levity and

2869
01:48:40,970 --> 01:48:38,880
a lot of this too

2870
01:48:42,890 --> 01:48:40,980
um could you point out maybe one of

2871
01:48:45,950 --> 01:48:42,900
those stories that kind of made us all

2872
01:48:47,870 --> 01:48:45,960
chuckle yes there was one story this

2873
01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:47,880
isn't necessarily paranormal but it's

2874
01:48:53,510 --> 01:48:50,639
paranormal adjacent because there was a

2875
01:48:56,030 --> 01:48:53,520
story in the late 1800s maybe early

2876
01:48:58,669 --> 01:48:56,040
1900s from this at Cape Girardeau area

2877
01:49:00,229 --> 01:48:58,679
where there was a little boy who had

2878
01:49:02,629 --> 01:49:00,239
just been sleepwalking and I guess he

2879
01:49:05,090 --> 01:49:02,639
had a white dressing gown or nightgown

2880
01:49:06,890 --> 01:49:05,100
and was kind of scaring people who

2881
01:49:09,649 --> 01:49:06,900
thought that there was a ghost or

2882
01:49:12,590 --> 01:49:09,659
something and then the news article says

2883
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:12,600
one Brave person stepped forward and

2884
01:49:16,370 --> 01:49:14,639
realized it was just little Ned Stewart

2885
01:49:19,310 --> 01:49:16,380
I think was his name and he was just

2886
01:49:22,669 --> 01:49:19,320
sleepwalking and but the headline was

2887
01:49:24,770 --> 01:49:22,679
like ghost you know is not not a ghost

2888
01:49:26,990 --> 01:49:24,780
or something like that and that was sort

2889
01:49:29,629 --> 01:49:27,000
of funny and then another one that kind

2890
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:29,639
of made us chuckle was late 1800s

2891
01:49:36,530 --> 01:49:31,520
newspaper article out of Philadelphia

2892
01:49:39,410 --> 01:49:36,540
Philadelphia sorry who um that outlined

2893
01:49:41,689 --> 01:49:39,420
Two Gentlemen who were renting a room at

2894
01:49:44,149 --> 01:49:41,699
a boarding house one of the gentlemen

2895
01:49:47,870 --> 01:49:44,159
woke up late one night claimed that he

2896
01:49:51,050 --> 01:49:47,880
saw a ghost on a cloud who smacked him

2897
01:49:52,850 --> 01:49:51,060
in the face and exploded through the

2898
01:49:56,149 --> 01:49:52,860
ceiling

2899
01:49:58,910 --> 01:49:56,159
and that is how it's worded and that

2900
01:50:02,390 --> 01:49:58,920
just the synopsis is amusing and makes

2901
01:50:04,729 --> 01:50:02,400
you chuckle but you have to like I have

2902
01:50:06,830 --> 01:50:04,739
to send you the article because the

2903
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:06,840
original article goes into such detail

2904
01:50:11,629 --> 01:50:10,080
it literally had me laugh crying and I

2905
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:11,639
kind of feel bad because this gives poor

2906
01:50:16,310 --> 01:50:13,679
guy it gets like specked in the face and

2907
01:50:18,770 --> 01:50:16,320
he's like I think in the article it says

2908
01:50:21,530 --> 01:50:18,780
smacked so hard he gets laid out and I'm

2909
01:50:24,229 --> 01:50:21,540
just like oh my gosh but it's just it's

2910
01:50:27,050 --> 01:50:24,239
it's almost unimaginable it's so wild

2911
01:50:29,030 --> 01:50:27,060
and descriptive the article and so yeah

2912
01:50:31,250 --> 01:50:29,040
and a lot of those articles are you find

2913
01:50:33,470 --> 01:50:31,260
like a poetry and kind of like a almost

2914
01:50:35,689 --> 01:50:33,480
like a setup of like a Shakespearean

2915
01:50:38,209 --> 01:50:35,699
play and an arc to them which you don't

2916
01:50:40,609 --> 01:50:38,219
see in journalism a lot these things

2917
01:50:43,010 --> 01:50:40,619
um and you know you mentioned smacked in

2918
01:50:46,790 --> 01:50:43,020
the face I often use that as kind of

2919
01:50:49,010 --> 01:50:46,800
like an analogy of how these phenomenon

2920
01:50:51,770 --> 01:50:49,020
um do smack Us in the face when we least

2921
01:50:54,050 --> 01:50:51,780
expect it uh but in this case it was

2922
01:50:56,930 --> 01:50:54,060
literal physical smacking in the face

2923
01:50:59,330 --> 01:50:56,940
literal it's that newspaper article is

2924
01:51:01,490 --> 01:50:59,340
so wild because you can clearly tell

2925
01:51:04,070 --> 01:51:01,500
those two guys those poor guys had a

2926
01:51:06,169 --> 01:51:04,080
knight and I think they end up like

2927
01:51:08,750 --> 01:51:06,179
pushing their beds to like one side of

2928
01:51:10,910 --> 01:51:08,760
the room together because the the other

2929
01:51:14,030 --> 01:51:10,920
one wakes up because of all the chaos

2930
01:51:16,970 --> 01:51:14,040
happening and sees the guy like sliding

2931
01:51:19,250 --> 01:51:16,980
out of bed and it's just it's insane oh

2932
01:51:21,169 --> 01:51:19,260
gosh yeah well I know you have a lot of

2933
01:51:23,270 --> 01:51:21,179
stories in the books that you've written

2934
01:51:26,149 --> 01:51:23,280
as well I'm looking right now at the

2935
01:51:28,430 --> 01:51:26,159
feminine Macabre in that title obviously

2936
01:51:29,750 --> 01:51:28,440
I'm sure catches a lot of people's

2937
01:51:31,669 --> 01:51:29,760
attention

2938
01:51:34,129 --> 01:51:31,679
um and the cover's Beautiful obviously

2939
01:51:35,450 --> 01:51:34,139
but tell us a little about

2940
01:51:38,870 --> 01:51:35,460
um the books that you've written if you

2941
01:51:41,390 --> 01:51:38,880
don't mind yes thank you so I have of an

2942
01:51:44,149 --> 01:51:41,400
essay in the feminine Macabre which is a

2943
01:51:46,490 --> 01:51:44,159
collection of essays that are

2944
01:51:49,609 --> 01:51:46,500
contributed by women in the Paranormal

2945
01:51:53,629 --> 01:51:49,619
on a wide variety of topics my essay is

2946
01:51:55,490 --> 01:51:53,639
in volume 3 of feminine Macabre that is

2947
01:51:59,930 --> 01:51:55,500
produced and put together by Amanda

2948
01:52:04,209 --> 01:51:59,940
Wilmer at spook eats and my article is

2949
01:52:09,310 --> 01:52:04,219
about the Perils of representation

2950
01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:09,320
in the early historic literature about

2951
01:52:15,589 --> 01:52:12,480
psychical research for example I talked

2952
01:52:17,930 --> 01:52:15,599
about in my presentation how the seminal

2953
01:52:21,109 --> 01:52:17,940
sort of American parapsychologist JB

2954
01:52:23,149 --> 01:52:21,119
rein his wife was also a

2955
01:52:25,430 --> 01:52:23,159
parapsychologist she was also a doctor

2956
01:52:28,370 --> 01:52:25,440
she got her PhD three years before he

2957
01:52:31,790 --> 01:52:28,380
did but in the historic literature she's

2958
01:52:34,669 --> 01:52:31,800
often only referred to as Dr JB Ryan and

2959
01:52:36,830 --> 01:52:34,679
Mrs Ryan she's not even referred to as a

2960
01:52:41,270 --> 01:52:36,840
doctor it's not the doctor's rhyme it's

2961
01:52:43,310 --> 01:52:41,280
yeah and so I talk about the Perils of

2962
01:52:46,250 --> 01:52:43,320
representation when you're digging

2963
01:52:49,970 --> 01:52:46,260
through the historic literature

2964
01:52:53,270 --> 01:52:49,980
um just things to be aware of when you

2965
01:52:55,609 --> 01:52:53,280
are engaging with older resources so

2966
01:52:58,070 --> 01:52:55,619
that you can understand just the you

2967
01:53:01,669 --> 01:52:58,080
know the context and the societal sort

2968
01:53:03,890 --> 01:53:01,679
of norms at that time period but my

2969
01:53:05,689 --> 01:53:03,900
other book is um well that was just an

2970
01:53:07,970 --> 01:53:05,699
essay rather my first book Is

2971
01:53:09,890 --> 01:53:07,980
researching the Paranormal it came out

2972
01:53:11,689 --> 01:53:09,900
in June of 2020 so it was really

2973
01:53:15,410 --> 01:53:11,699
interesting to be finishing a book like

2974
01:53:17,089 --> 01:53:15,420
in the midst of the height of like you

2975
01:53:20,089 --> 01:53:17,099
know the pandemic

2976
01:53:24,010 --> 01:53:20,099
um and basically it's a compendium of

2977
01:53:26,990 --> 01:53:24,020
resources that summarize and present

2978
01:53:29,930 --> 01:53:27,000
decades worth of research from

2979
01:53:32,890 --> 01:53:29,940
scientists and others who have done

2980
01:53:37,270 --> 01:53:32,900
studies about all sorts of things ESP

2981
01:53:39,890 --> 01:53:37,280
psychokinesis Poltergeist cryptozoology

2982
01:53:42,229 --> 01:53:39,900
ghosts hauntings all sorts of things so

2983
01:53:45,530 --> 01:53:42,239
just highlight to people that there are

2984
01:53:49,430 --> 01:53:45,540
credible people who are doing really

2985
01:53:51,229 --> 01:53:49,440
creative credible research and in my

2986
01:53:52,370 --> 01:53:51,239
book I'm not trying to convince you of

2987
01:53:54,830 --> 01:53:52,380
anything I'm not trying to change

2988
01:53:56,750 --> 01:53:54,840
people's minds I'm just presenting the

2989
01:53:59,689 --> 01:53:56,760
long history of paranormal research

2990
01:54:02,689 --> 01:53:59,699
because it can be really hard to find

2991
01:54:04,729 --> 01:54:02,699
credible information about anything but

2992
01:54:07,250 --> 01:54:04,739
especially about the Paranormal yeah

2993
01:54:10,250 --> 01:54:07,260
absolutely yeah and I think that's what

2994
01:54:11,629 --> 01:54:10,260
um books and libraries afford US is sort

2995
01:54:14,510 --> 01:54:11,639
of that

2996
01:54:17,930 --> 01:54:14,520
um untainted kind of

2997
01:54:20,149 --> 01:54:17,940
um crowd sourcing of information that

2998
01:54:22,070 --> 01:54:20,159
often I mean you ask anyone like how

2999
01:54:25,129 --> 01:54:22,080
they do their research and like I go to

3000
01:54:27,649 --> 01:54:25,139
Google I go to Wikipedia and you're just

3001
01:54:29,870 --> 01:54:27,659
like oh God here we go but when you

3002
01:54:33,290 --> 01:54:29,880
actually put the legwork in and go

3003
01:54:36,169 --> 01:54:33,300
research your local town and find out

3004
01:54:38,810 --> 01:54:36,179
the history or what paranormal cases or

3005
01:54:40,129 --> 01:54:38,820
investigations have taken place there

3006
01:54:43,310 --> 01:54:40,139
um where else can you find those

3007
01:54:44,990 --> 01:54:43,320
resources you know we think we have it

3008
01:54:47,930 --> 01:54:45,000
good with one click of a button to

3009
01:54:50,390 --> 01:54:47,940
search for something but in reality

3010
01:54:52,609 --> 01:54:50,400
um at least for me I love going to the

3011
01:54:55,189 --> 01:54:52,619
library smelling the books digging

3012
01:54:57,050 --> 01:54:55,199
through going through the the microfiche

3013
01:55:00,770 --> 01:54:57,060
if they still even exist I don't know

3014
01:55:01,970 --> 01:55:00,780
okay okay good good and um and doing the

3015
01:55:04,250 --> 01:55:01,980
work and that's what I respect about

3016
01:55:06,830 --> 01:55:04,260
what you do and a lot of the um the very

3017
01:55:09,109 --> 01:55:06,840
credible researchers still do that sort

3018
01:55:16,609 --> 01:55:09,119
of stuff so it's very important thank

3019
01:55:22,310 --> 01:55:19,609
as a librarian I will use Wikipedia

3020
01:55:24,350 --> 01:55:22,320
sometimes because the references and the

3021
01:55:27,169 --> 01:55:24,360
footnotes can be really great places

3022
01:55:28,490 --> 01:55:27,179
it's a good point to start

3023
01:55:30,950 --> 01:55:28,500
um of course you would never want to

3024
01:55:33,649 --> 01:55:30,960
cite or rely just on the Wikipedia

3025
01:55:35,930 --> 01:55:33,659
article which is what you were saying

3026
01:55:37,850 --> 01:55:35,940
um but yeah the references and the end

3027
01:55:40,250 --> 01:55:37,860
notes can be really great places to

3028
01:55:41,810 --> 01:55:40,260
start when I help students with their

3029
01:55:44,450 --> 01:55:41,820
various research projects at my

3030
01:55:46,370 --> 01:55:44,460
University they throw out such wonderful

3031
01:55:47,689 --> 01:55:46,380
events and topics and stuff and I'm just

3032
01:55:49,609 --> 01:55:47,699
like wow I had I don't know about this

3033
01:55:51,350 --> 01:55:49,619
let me Wikipedia real quick and get

3034
01:55:55,430 --> 01:55:51,360
familiar and look at the footnotes and

3035
01:55:57,290 --> 01:55:55,440
get started and then also too yes

3036
01:56:00,470 --> 01:55:57,300
everything that you just said yes about

3037
01:56:02,870 --> 01:56:00,480
the physical resources in the archives

3038
01:56:05,570 --> 01:56:02,880
of libraries and microfilm and things

3039
01:56:08,750 --> 01:56:05,580
that have not been digitized and that

3040
01:56:11,570 --> 01:56:08,760
are only accessible in certain ways but

3041
01:56:15,770 --> 01:56:11,580
but also I just really wanted people to

3042
01:56:18,709 --> 01:56:15,780
know that there's so many databases

3043
01:56:21,169 --> 01:56:18,719
that you can find information from the

3044
01:56:23,390 --> 01:56:21,179
click of a button through

3045
01:56:25,250 --> 01:56:23,400
um the chronicling America historic

3046
01:56:29,149 --> 01:56:25,260
newspapers with the Library of Congress

3047
01:56:31,490 --> 01:56:29,159
the directory of Open Access journals

3048
01:56:34,609 --> 01:56:31,500
um where you can find scholarly studies

3049
01:56:37,070 --> 01:56:34,619
about you know ESP or it goes trying to

3050
01:56:40,550 --> 01:56:37,080
just or just even other non-paranormal

3051
01:56:41,350 --> 01:56:40,560
related things hathi trust which is a

3052
01:56:45,410 --> 01:56:41,360
great

3053
01:56:47,689 --> 01:56:45,420
archive.org yeah there's a lot well and

3054
01:56:50,390 --> 01:56:47,699
you you presented those resources again

3055
01:56:52,370 --> 01:56:50,400
to people who can go use these for free

3056
01:56:54,530 --> 01:56:52,380
which I think is a very

3057
01:56:56,990 --> 01:56:54,540
um a very good thing information

3058
01:56:58,850 --> 01:56:57,000
shouldn't be behind a payroll to an

3059
01:57:01,490 --> 01:56:58,860
extent I understand a newspaper needs to

3060
01:57:04,129 --> 01:57:01,500
survive therefore subscription but um

3061
01:57:07,370 --> 01:57:04,139
but a lot of it like you said you have

3062
01:57:09,649 --> 01:57:07,380
the right to have information as a human

3063
01:57:11,689 --> 01:57:09,659
being yes um so I really appreciated

3064
01:57:13,010 --> 01:57:11,699
that um there was one other thing I

3065
01:57:15,109 --> 01:57:13,020
wanted to touch on with you we talked

3066
01:57:18,050 --> 01:57:15,119
about this last night and you presented

3067
01:57:20,030 --> 01:57:18,060
this today is um you did include UFOs in

3068
01:57:22,870 --> 01:57:20,040
your talk too yes you mentioned the now

3069
01:57:25,669 --> 01:57:22,880
famous now famous the famous uh MIT

3070
01:57:27,649 --> 01:57:25,679
conference that took place yes um could

3071
01:57:29,149 --> 01:57:27,659
you maybe run us through the cliff notes

3072
01:57:31,430 --> 01:57:29,159
version of what that was and why you

3073
01:57:34,129 --> 01:57:31,440
decided to include that in your talk yes

3074
01:57:37,370 --> 01:57:34,139
so the MIT abduction study Conference

3075
01:57:39,649 --> 01:57:37,380
was held in June of 1992 I believe and

3076
01:57:41,390 --> 01:57:39,659
it was organized by John Mack who you

3077
01:57:42,350 --> 01:57:41,400
talked about in your presentation so

3078
01:57:43,729 --> 01:57:42,360
when I was listening to your

3079
01:57:45,950 --> 01:57:43,739
presentation and you started talking

3080
01:57:47,750 --> 01:57:45,960
about John Mack I was like yes I talk

3081
01:57:50,149 --> 01:57:47,760
about that dude too

3082
01:57:53,750 --> 01:57:50,159
um and then David Pritchard who was with

3083
01:57:56,290 --> 01:57:53,760
MIT and basically uh both John Mack and

3084
01:57:59,030 --> 01:57:56,300
David Pritchard realized that people

3085
01:58:01,970 --> 01:57:59,040
have been and are continuing to report

3086
01:58:04,430 --> 01:58:01,980
these abduction experiences and the

3087
01:58:06,410 --> 01:58:04,440
numbers are staggering numbers of

3088
01:58:09,410 --> 01:58:06,420
reports are staggering and these people

3089
01:58:11,510 --> 01:58:09,420
appear to be of sound mind with no

3090
01:58:14,030 --> 01:58:11,520
ulterior motive or personal benefit and

3091
01:58:16,729 --> 01:58:14,040
so they basically just said hey this

3092
01:58:18,350 --> 01:58:16,739
topic is worthy of inquiry and let's

3093
01:58:20,089 --> 01:58:18,360
have a conference about it where we

3094
01:58:22,870 --> 01:58:20,099
invite the people who have experienced

3095
01:58:25,910 --> 01:58:22,880
these things but also invite other

3096
01:58:27,950 --> 01:58:25,920
psychologists and people from uh Jenny

3097
01:58:31,390 --> 01:58:27,960
Randalls from the British

3098
01:58:34,430 --> 01:58:31,400
um British UFO research yes yes

3099
01:58:36,470 --> 01:58:34,440
uh they you know she was there they had

3100
01:58:37,910 --> 01:58:36,480
emergency Personnel people who were

3101
01:58:40,490 --> 01:58:37,920
there who would often be the first line

3102
01:58:42,770 --> 01:58:40,500
of people that had maybe gone to the

3103
01:58:45,410 --> 01:58:42,780
hospital in the aftermath of an

3104
01:58:47,089 --> 01:58:45,420
abduction event they had all types of I

3105
01:58:49,189 --> 01:58:47,099
mean you know they had all types of

3106
01:58:52,310 --> 01:58:49,199
people and the reason that I talked

3107
01:58:53,589 --> 01:58:52,320
about that is because I think it is such

3108
01:58:56,750 --> 01:58:53,599
a wonderful

3109
01:58:58,729 --> 01:58:56,760
example of the intersection of the

3110
01:59:01,370 --> 01:58:58,739
strange and anomalous and the academy

3111
01:59:03,430 --> 01:59:01,380
because you have these two guys from

3112
01:59:06,109 --> 01:59:03,440
Harvard and MIT

3113
01:59:08,450 --> 01:59:06,119
the academy intersecting with this

3114
01:59:12,410 --> 01:59:08,460
really sort of strange if you will

3115
01:59:16,129 --> 01:59:12,420
Fringe topic of abductions and UFOs and

3116
01:59:17,990 --> 01:59:16,139
the two things can work together

3117
01:59:21,169 --> 01:59:18,000
right and that's kind of what this

3118
01:59:23,330 --> 01:59:21,179
conference has embodied is we can all

3119
01:59:26,990 --> 01:59:23,340
share information and there might be

3120
01:59:29,149 --> 01:59:27,000
some intrinsic link between ghosts and

3121
01:59:30,830 --> 01:59:29,159
UFOs and Bigfoot and a lot of

3122
01:59:33,050 --> 01:59:30,840
researchers don't think so and I respect

3123
01:59:35,870 --> 01:59:33,060
that like that they're focused on what

3124
01:59:37,370 --> 01:59:35,880
they want to look into but I think for a

3125
01:59:40,010 --> 01:59:37,380
lot of people here they're just looking

3126
01:59:43,189 --> 01:59:40,020
for answers no matter what ghosts or

3127
01:59:45,169 --> 01:59:43,199
Bigfoot or UFOs are and um that's what I

3128
01:59:47,990 --> 01:59:45,179
loved is like we went to a haunted house

3129
01:59:50,930 --> 01:59:48,000
last night and you've got like three or

3130
01:59:53,870 --> 01:59:50,940
four UFO researchers here so that's when

3131
01:59:55,609 --> 01:59:53,880
we gain an appreciation for the research

3132
01:59:57,589 --> 01:59:55,619
being done in other facets of the

3133
01:59:59,209 --> 01:59:57,599
unknown yes in my opinion I don't know

3134
02:00:01,870 --> 01:59:59,219
what how do you feel about this whole

3135
02:00:05,030 --> 02:00:01,880
idea of everything being possibly linked

3136
02:00:06,669 --> 02:00:05,040
I am open to it I think that we don't

3137
02:00:10,370 --> 02:00:06,679
know what we don't know

3138
02:00:12,709 --> 02:00:10,380
and I think that it there's nothing

3139
02:00:16,250 --> 02:00:12,719
wrong with specializing in your

3140
02:00:17,990 --> 02:00:16,260
particular areas uh being drawn to the

3141
02:00:20,570 --> 02:00:18,000
topics that you're drawn to like if

3142
02:00:22,189 --> 02:00:20,580
you're more drawn to UFO uh stuff than

3143
02:00:24,410 --> 02:00:22,199
you are you know ghosts absolutely

3144
02:00:28,010 --> 02:00:24,420
nothing wrong with that I think the only

3145
02:00:31,250 --> 02:00:28,020
harm that comes from that is when you're

3146
02:00:34,070 --> 02:00:31,260
closed off to discussion and

3147
02:00:38,270 --> 02:00:34,080
possibilities and and or are actively

3148
02:00:40,430 --> 02:00:38,280
trying to censor or silence you know

3149
02:00:41,990 --> 02:00:40,440
other people just because maybe they

3150
02:00:44,030 --> 02:00:42,000
focus they think something is a ghost

3151
02:00:46,790 --> 02:00:44,040
and you think it's a UFO and you know

3152
02:00:49,129 --> 02:00:46,800
the yeah those are the only times when I

3153
02:00:51,470 --> 02:00:49,139
think it's harmful but I don't think

3154
02:00:54,890 --> 02:00:51,480
there's I'm into the idea of all things

3155
02:00:58,669 --> 02:00:54,900
being uh interconnected because I think

3156
02:01:03,169 --> 02:00:58,679
that there is a lot that can be gained

3157
02:01:06,109 --> 02:01:03,179
from the inquiry of the possible multi

3158
02:01:09,050 --> 02:01:06,119
and interdisciplinary interdisciplinary

3159
02:01:11,450 --> 02:01:09,060
us out at all yeah and it's just fun to

3160
02:01:14,149 --> 02:01:11,460
Muse about yeah absolutely I don't know

3161
02:01:16,189 --> 02:01:14,159
it's fun it's fun and that's kind of

3162
02:01:19,089 --> 02:01:16,199
what I took away from this entire event

3163
02:01:22,070 --> 02:01:19,099
you know it was fun it was in

3164
02:01:24,530 --> 02:01:22,080
enlightening and um I know already

3165
02:01:26,089 --> 02:01:24,540
they're planning another Conference next

3166
02:01:27,950 --> 02:01:26,099
year so

3167
02:01:30,229 --> 02:01:27,960
um I'm so happy I finally got to meet

3168
02:01:31,790 --> 02:01:30,239
you likewise um it's been an absolute

3169
02:01:34,010 --> 02:01:31,800
pleasure getting to know you and your

3170
02:01:35,330 --> 02:01:34,020
work and um please before we go let us

3171
02:01:38,450 --> 02:01:35,340
know where we can find everything you're

3172
02:01:40,850 --> 02:01:38,460
up to yes okay so my second book comes

3173
02:01:44,030 --> 02:01:40,860
out in September that is the

3174
02:01:45,649 --> 02:01:44,040
Encyclopedia of parapsychology and it is

3175
02:01:47,870 --> 02:01:45,659
a decade by decade annotated

3176
02:01:49,970 --> 02:01:47,880
bibliography of research done on

3177
02:01:52,430 --> 02:01:49,980
parapsychology also provides

3178
02:01:54,649 --> 02:01:52,440
biographical sketches of historic

3179
02:01:56,930 --> 02:01:54,659
researchers modern researchers and then

3180
02:01:58,609 --> 02:01:56,940
the mediums themselves and the people

3181
02:02:01,669 --> 02:01:58,619
who are often at the center of these

3182
02:02:04,430 --> 02:02:01,679
cases that's primarily what's next for

3183
02:02:06,530 --> 02:02:04,440
me I'm also on sabbatical this semester

3184
02:02:08,390 --> 02:02:06,540
so I'm excited to do more things like

3185
02:02:10,729 --> 02:02:08,400
this conference I'm going to meet up

3186
02:02:13,430 --> 02:02:10,739
with a group of other contributors to

3187
02:02:16,550 --> 02:02:13,440
the feminine Macabre in November I'm so

3188
02:02:20,149 --> 02:02:16,560
excited about that and people can find

3189
02:02:23,750 --> 02:02:20,159
me I'm primarily active on Instagram at

3190
02:02:26,149 --> 02:02:23,760
liminal dot librarian amazing the

3191
02:02:27,589 --> 02:02:26,159
liminal librarian Courtney thank you so

3192
02:02:33,229 --> 02:02:27,599
much for joining me on somewhere in the

3193
02:02:33,239 --> 02:02:37,220
foreign

3194
02:02:50,360 --> 02:02:48,420
[Music]

3195
02:03:04,850 --> 02:02:50,370
[Applause]

3196
02:03:04,860 --> 02:03:09,990
foreign

3197
02:03:15,350 --> 02:03:12,310
[Music]

3198
02:03:17,089 --> 02:03:15,360
is produced by Third Kind Productions in